Grainfather S40 - Mistake? Shall I return and get something else?

[DuncR]

I always run the pump on my G30 for the last 5/10 minutes of the boil to sanitise the chiller and then continue to run to chill the wort. Have I just been lucky?
Usually use leaf hops rather than pellets and dislike using the hop spider. From some of the comments above I may need to rethink my leaf/pellet use.

 

[Joetp]

To my knowledge sanitising kills most of the nasties (or reduces them to a safe level) - so I think you should be fine! When I used to chill down with my previous set-up, I used to just wipe the copper chiller down and throw it in 15 mins before the end of the boil.

Back to the S40, I did my first brew last night (a simple Brewer's Gold SMASH). I used it with no sparge - so full volume straight in (33L) and it took around an hour to get up to 72 degrees. I was a bit worried as I haven't brewed for a while (my previous set-up broke so was waiting for a good time to get an AIO), but I had a 25 kilo bag of Crisp Pale Ale crushed malt purchased in March 2022 sat around open with 21 kilos left. I wasn't sure I'd hit my numbers with the old grain, but remarkably I hit them perfectly according to the Brewfather S40 profile set to no sparge! I couldn't believe it - both pre-boil and post-boil readings were bang on using 10-month-old pre-crushed malt! It's now just chilling down naturally in my kitchen ready to go into the Fermzilla.

I was worried about the negative reports about the poor control panel and mash temp fluctuations, but I found the mash temp held perfectly and the control panel fine and simple to use (I use Brewfather on my phone to track my brews and additions anyway). I've heard reports the steel on the S40 is thicker than competitors, so maybe that's a factor in holding temp well too.

You can still pretty much use the lid during the mash too - I just put the recirc pump to the side so it's flowing near the grain basket wall and balanced the lid on top - seemed to work well (you might just be able to work it out from my picture - this was taken just before mashing in and I'd set the pump going to help stabilise temperature).

I can't report on my other fear which was reportedly not being able to use the pump post-mashing stage, but I've ordered some longer silicon tubing which will allow me to whirlpool, so I'll report back on that. I know other S40 users in here have said it's fine to whirlpool so long as you spider or bag your hops, so fingers crossed!

It's good to be back and brewing!

 

[foxy]

I always run the pump on my G30 for the last 5/10 minutes of the boil to sanitise the chiller and then continue to run to chill the wort. Have I just been lucky?
Usually use leaf hops rather than pellets and dislike using the hop spider. From some of the comments above I may need to rethink my leaf/pellet use.

There are two different pump impellers one nylon safe to 80 C the other I think is ceramic coated good for 120 C The Grainfather has the later.

 

[user 43495]

Hi there,

I'm in a bit of a predicament and I'm not sure what to do, so was after some advice. I bought a Grainfather S40 on offer for £350, an upgrade from a Peco boiler. However, having looked into it further, there are some reported downsides:

- Can't run the pump during the boil as it doesn't have a filter, so hop matter could clog/break the pump apparently. This also then means you can't use the pump to transfer your wort into the fermenter once done, so you are reliant on using the tap at the bottom meaning you have to have the unit on top of a counter of some kind. I did wonder about using a big paint strainer as well as the grain basket during the boil to help keep the hop matter away from the pump and use it anyway, but I don't know if this is risky.
-The panel reportedly has some issues and during the mash, it has a fluctuation of 3 degrees either way before the heat kicks in. On top of this, the lid doesn't have a hole like other units so you can't use it to help stabilise the mash temperature.

These two things are grating on me as I feel I could probably put 50 to 100 more down and get a better unit (I hate false economy). So I wanted to throw this out to the forum to see if you have any thoughts. I haven't even opened the box yet, so I could probably return it and get something better if I wanted!

Thanks,

Joe

My only thoughts are why buy into so many potential problems? My setup is over 40 years old and has never let me down yet. It's purely manual and cost next to nothing

 

[foxy]

My only thoughts are why buy into so many potential problems? My setup is over 40 years old and has never let me down yet. It's purely manual and cost next to nothing

Choice, and and more importantly it keeps the economy moving.

 

[Ninja7]

Iv had the s40 since christmas and no complaints hear . I finaly went all in all grain and upgraded from kits and was worried about it so bought the all in one to make my novice life easier .
The s40 has made this jump easy eps with the grainfather or brew father app . The app dose the hard work and tells you when to add hops boil chill etc .

Iv done i few brews on it now so slowly learning the ropes . First few with the chiller at end and last 2 iv tried no chill cube . I be going back to the chiller for a clearer beer .
Evan with grainfather app tho water wise iv still been few lts short after boil . So dead space grain bill slightly off in app as say im still learning.

Do i regret buying not one bit best bit kit with my apollo iv bought to make life easy

 

[Baldylocks Brewery]

Hi JB , like Ninja I’m 3or4 brews in and loving it. I’m finding I need to up the water to 34/34litres to hit a 23 ltr fermentation batch but that’s just tuning. I’m also considering adding a hole in the lid so it can stay on while recirculating but not a huge issue.
Very happy with the upgrade from BIAB in my 56ltr electric kettle.

 

[BrewingSolutions]

Don't GF recommend running boiling wort through the counterflow chiller during last few mins of boil to sanitize?

 

[YeastFace]

They recommend waiting after the boil and temp dropping to 97/98° so you don't get an airlock in the pump.

I *think* with the latest update you can't even put the pump on whilst it's boiling at 100°, or at least a warning which you have to override.

I don't think the S40 comes with a CFC in any case.

 

[Joetp]

Seems I've sparked quite the debate

I've done a few brews on it now - I think I've got a good workaround to allow the use of the pump during whirlpooling/hop standing. I think I'm going to start using a bag for the mash and leave the grain basket in during the boil. I'll then use a big hop spider, and recirculate through there for any 80-degree hop additions and hope the grain basket and hop spider keep enough residue out of the pump.

My only thoughts are why buy into so many potential problems? My setup is over 40 years old and has never let me down yet. It's purely manual and cost next to nothing

For me, I was using a Peco boiler before - the temperature control wasn't precise enough for accurate mashes, I didn't have a pump for recirculating during the mash and it wasn't as efficient as the Grainfather. For me, the S40 is still a massive upgrade and was the best value AIO around at the time - it's just a shame there's no false bottom available ultimately. I've also messaged Grainfather support about this and they said they've sent my feedback to a team somewhere. We'll see...

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I *think* with the latest update you can't even put the pump on whilst it's boiling at 100°, or at least a warning which you have to override.

Yep, mine doesn't run at all unless you wait 1-2 minutes after flameout. (G40)

 

[Andrew Booth]

I have a S40 got it when they were released.

My observations over the last year

1. Mine never gets above 98 degrees
2. No boil timer as never reaches 100 degrees
3. The manual suggests setting the s40 to 103 degrees to keep the boil going
4. I complained to Bevie about those issues and they paid me £200 in compensation for these issues

In addition I Had a Brewster Beacon prior to the s40 this had none of those problems I wrongly assumed the s40 being a Grainfather product would be better.

I reckon they cocked up the firmware it’s very basic compared to Robebrew, Beacon, Brewmonk etc.

 

[Joetp]

I have a S40 got it when they were released.

My observations over the last year

1. Mine never gets above 98 degrees
2. No boil timer as never reaches 100 degrees
3. The manual suggests setting the s40 to 103 degrees to keep the boil going
4. I complained to Bevie about those issues and they paid me £200 in compensation for these issues

In addition I Had a Brewster Beacon prior to the s40 this had none of those problems I wrongly assumed the s40 being a Grainfather product would be better.

I reckon they cocked up the firmware it’s very basic compared to Robebrew, Beacon, Brewmonk etc.

Thanks for sending this! So I take it you don't use the S40 anymore?

 

[Andrew Booth]

Thanks for sending this! So I take it you don't use the S40 anymore?

I still use it for now anyway I’m thinking about getting something else I do have to say the royal catering all in one is the same as the Brewster/Brewmonk I see brew2bottle have the G30 for £575 quite a steal compared to other sellers.

I’m looking at either a klarstein or robobrew or something like

 

[malhal]

If you turn off the pump, add the hops, then stir to dissolve them, then they won't clog the pump. It gets blocked when a solid hop pellet goes into the pump. There is a trick to unblock it but it's rather risky.

If you use whirlpool arm to get a hop cone then you can transfer using pump, so no need for bags or hop spider.

 

[stripeyjoe]

On my G40 I leave it for a few mins after the boil to let it cool down to 95C-ish before using the pump to push hot wort through the CF chiller, that is a high enough temperature to kill off any nasties that might remain. Prior to starting my brew I do run some water and then sanitiser through everything just to clear out any crud that was not cleaned out after the previous brew and make sure the pump is working.
Not had an issue with just chucking the whirlpool hops directly in, only exception to this is when the bottom plate has lifter during the boil, then it can clog up.

 

[rank_frank]

I've got an older Grainfather Connect. I think it'd be called the G30 nowadays. It has got a hop filter and copes very well with leaf hops but pellets have been a pain. I have struggled with using a spider as it fills with sludge and I get very little hop utilisation. After stripping and cleaning out the pump several times due to hop material jamming it I had resolved not to use pellets but I was persuaded to try the Grainfather whirlpool attachment. It's transformed the brew experience for me. A couple of minutes will leave the hop material in a cone in the middle of the Grainfather, well away from the pump inlet.

I've also switched to doing no chill brewing so no need to run the pump on boiling wort. I finish the boil and let everything settle down for a couple of minutes and then use the whirlpool paddle on my drill at a fairly slow speed. Leave for a couple more minutes for the swirling to stop and then pump into the cube.

 

[Alicks]

Had an S40 for nearly a year now, after downsizing from a load of big steel and propane - it's brilliant!

I've used the pump at 100°c many times with no issue at all with a similar use case as described, sanitisation before whirlpooling. I also keep it on after to aid in cooling, then use it to finally transfer to the FV. Never use my front tap unless it's for cleaning.

I've seen some odd fluctuations when recirculating, but I really don't worry too much about that. If you don't recirculate, then it stays pretty stable.

Good luck with your s40!

 

[Joetp]

Update: I ended up returning my S40. After quite a few brews I noticed my FG was pretty much always incorrect due to the temperature controller not being very accurate during the mash. For me and the beers I brew, this is a massive issue. I like to mash high on low abv beers and it just didn't hold the mash temp well enough to be correct and consistent unfortunately. This also makes repeating a brew exactly nearly impossible.

 

[ale_crowe_holic]

Update: I ended up returning my S40. After quite a few brews I noticed my FG was pretty much always incorrect due to the temperature controller not being very accurate during the mash. For me and the beers I brew, this is a massive issue. I like to mash high on low abv beers and it just didn't hold the mash temp well enough to be correct and consistent unfortunately. This also makes repeating a brew exactly nearly impossible.

My 2 brews have been miles out on my S40.
The first was a Sharks clone and the second was one that I'd put together myself, inputted everything to the app and it's well out. Should be 7.2% and it's 4.9%. Maybe my numbers were wrong when inputting them but it shouldn't be that far out.
Never reached boil, even putting it to 103 I don't think it read more than 98. Wouldn't hold at 68, always dropping down to 65 before "heating" shows on the screen.
Not sure whether to try for a refund with Brew2Bottle due to these issues.