Free Scotland

[Tony623]

Should there be an option in the poll where the whole of the UK gets to vote on a Scottish referendum, after all it would have some effect on all members of the Union not just Scotland?

Absolutely there should, I would be more than happy to chuck a fiver into the rebuild Hadrians wall fund.

 

[foxy]

Just in case the thread gets closed, and we are going round and round a bit, let me say as OP, that it has been a great discussion. Thanks all. I've certainly learned from it and, I have to admire @foxy 's tenacity even though I don't agree with him.
How can you have a discussion if everybody agrees?

I love reading what the ill at ease and the ill informed have to say. It must be remembered that Utopia isn't at the end of a ballot box. Utopia is what one makes for ones self.
The best thing about living in a democratic society is one is allowed to voice ones opinions, whichever end of the spectrum one supports.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

By taxes, revenue and borrowing, presumably. Like every single other country.

How much is your tax going to rise to cover all costs that won't be when you leave us?

As I posted earlier in the thread defence alone will cost every person in Scotland £360 but when you look at how many pay tax its going to be close to double that.


We estimate that there will be around 4.6 million adults living in Scotland in 2022-23 and around 2.7 million Scottish Income taxpayers.

 

[Brew_DD2]

As I posted earlier in the thread defence alone will cost every person in Scotland £360 but when you look at how many pay tax its going to be close to double that.

Erm, you do realise that we pay taxes now, right? That £360 per person isn't a gift that would become a liability overnight.

Scotland's defence spend would be much smaller too as our GDP would be smaller. GDP per capita should be interesting though.

Scotland will manage just fine. Look outside of England and you will see many many countries that do great without needing a big neighbour leading them. I shouldn't imagine too many in Ireland would fancy being in the UK, even if you erased the historical baggage.

EDIT:

An interesting graph of current estimates of GDP/capita.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1168072/uk-gdp-per-head-by-region/

 

[Brew_DD2]

We estimate that there will be around 4.6 million adults living in Scotland in 2022-23 and around 2.7 million Scottish Income taxpayers.

That's one form of taxation.

You seem awfully perturbed/confused by this all. Have no idea why.

 

[samale]

I love reading what the ill at ease and the ill informed have to say. It must be remembered that Utopia isn't at the end of a ballot box. Utopia is what one makes for ones self.
The best thing about living in a democratic society is one is allowed to voice ones opinions, whichever end of the spectrum one supports.

It's nice that you accept the Scottish democratic right to try and make that Utopia a reality.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I love reading what the ill at ease and the ill informed have to say. It must be remembered that Utopia isn't at the end of a ballot box. Utopia is what one makes for ones self.
The best thing about living in a democratic society is one is allowed to voice ones opinions, whichever end of the spectrum one supports.

This is pure, undiluted tory, which, incidentally is absolute failing the UK and fuelling the independence movement at the minute.

 

[Brew_DD2]

The best thing about living in a democratic society is one is allowed to voice ones opinions

Surely it's the ability it gives you to pursue your own Utopia?

If you lived under a system where you were denied your right to pursue whatever your Utopia may be, I am sure you would not be so chipper.

 

[Polcho]

I wonder if the Scottish people/person in charge at the time, actually agreed to joining something with the caveat that they couldn’t leave unless the other party let them?

If they did, well, that’s unfortunate. However, I wonder if such an agreement constitutes an unfair contract that could be challenged in the courts.

The ruling last week, as I understand it, was decided upon under the premise that the contract/agreement was legal.

 

[Bosch]

Looking at the poll seems like the yes's are far ahead.

I assume the poll is constitutionally binding

 

[Bosch]

I love reading what the ill at ease

People who's trousers are too tight?

 

[Clarence]

I wonder if the Scottish people/person in charge at the time, actually agreed to joining something with the caveat that they couldn’t leave unless the other party let them?

If they did, well, that’s unfortunate. However, I wonder if such an agreement constitutes an unfair contract that could be challenged in the courts.

The ruling last week, as I understand it, was decided upon under the premise that the contract/agreement was legal.

The Supreme Court of the UK is in hock to the UK Parliament so that was never going to work. There was some leeway within the framework of the various human rights legislation, but as the Scummies are in the process of unpicking that legislation, the freedom of the Supreme Court will become even more circumscribed. I sometimes think we're no better off than China and North Korea. That's what the Scummies want, anyway. Nobody really cares as it doesn't affect them so it's like boiling a frog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_Kingdom

 

[Cwrw666]

So far the poll results seem to indicate that the rest of the UK are actually more in favour of an independent Scotland than the Scots themselves are.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Erm, you do realise that we pay taxes now, right? That £360 per person isn't a gift that would become a liability overnight.

I assume you will be paying a lot more than you are now if those figures are correct.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Look here at this Quality of Life index, taken mid year 2022.

Pay particular attention to some of the European countries there and give some thought to their size/population.....

Some PLEASE PLEASE just tell me..... Why is Scotland uniquely placed to be unable to operate as a country, or as has become the new question.... To raise funds as needed to operate as said country.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I assume you will be paying a lot more than you are now if those figures are correct.

Based on..?

 

[Brew_DD2]

Look here at this Quality of Life index, taken mid year 2022.

Pay particular attention to some of the European countries there and give some thought to their size/population.....

Some PLEASE PLEASE just tell me..... Why is Scotland uniquely placed to be unable to operate as a country, or as has become the new question.... To raise funds as needed to operate as said country.

Also worth noting that a lot of the countries that score the highest on happiness indexes tend to be countries with higher levels of taxation. Now, I'm not saying that taxation is the route to happiness, but there does seem to be a correlation between well-funded public services, decreased inequality and happiness.

https://worldhappiness.report/ed/20...19-and-beyond/#ranking-of-happiness-2019-2021

 

[Stan's Brew]

Whatever the people want and decide outside of a referendum means diddly squat, in my view Scotland will never get a vote unless they take matters into their own hands. The British monarchy has ruled these lands for a thousand years, there is not a cat in hell's chance that they, nor the people that protect them (MPs/Establishment) are going to allow centuries of power and wealth be taken away from them. The establishment will use every trick in the book to prevent it and they will get their way.

Scotland is going to have to take some drastic action to enact change, otherwise they are whistling in the wind.

And on a pure selfish note, whilst I agree that people's referendums are a chance for us commoners to possibly enact change, I disagree that any part of the Union should be given preferential treatment over another when we are all ruled by the tyranny of Westminster. We should ALL get the chance to vote against (or for) the regime and the monarchy in one big mahoosive referendum that tells them to do one.

 

[Stan's Brew]

Also worth noting that a lot of the countries that score the highest on happiness indexes tend to be countries with higher levels of taxation. Now, I'm not saying that taxation is the route to happiness, but there does seem to be a correlation between well-funded public services, decreased inequality and happiness.

https://worldhappiness.report/ed/20...19-and-beyond/#ranking-of-happiness-2019-2021

Hahaha the sustainable development solutions network is about as believable as my dog (and I don't have a dog).

 

[An Ankoù]

Whatever the people want and decide outside of a referendum means diddly squat, in my view Scotland will never get a vote unless they take matters into their own hands. The British monarchy has ruled these lands for a thousand years, there is not a cat in hell's chance that they, nor the people that protect them (MPs/Establishment) are going to allow centuries of power and wealth be taken away from them. The establishment will use every trick in the book to prevent it and they will get their way.

Scotland is going to have to take some drastic action to enact change, otherwise they are whistling in the wind.

And on a pure selfish note, whilst I agree that people's referendums are a chance for us commoners to possibly enact change, I disagree that any part of the Union should be given preferential treatment over another when we are all ruled by the tyranny of Westminster. We should ALL get the chance to vote against (or for) the regime and the monarchy in one big mahoosive referendum that tells them to do one.

Bloody hell, Stan. I never thought I'd see the day I agreed with most of what you said.
The Act of Union was 1707, not a thousand years.
Yes, let us take up our claymores and retune our doodledsacks and rid ourselves of this curse for ever more.