Flavour got worse after conditioning

[matt76]

When I first tried AG#1 at the end of November I noted it had a really nice crisp and moreish gentle hop flavour - and I really don't think I was kidding myself.

But the last few bottles have been less impressive - it's still carbonated and clear but the fresh flavour has gone and it's now more yeasty and like... well, like $h1t homebrew to be honest.

They were all bottled together and sanitised well I think and it's been stored the last few weeks in the garage at around 14-16degC. I'm careful not to disturb the sediment when I pour.

Is this just a function of how this beer has aged, or could there be something along the way that I did or didn't do?

I'm not too worried or disheartened as I'm still very new to brewing but I'd like to make sure I do it better in the future.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[Leon103]

Hops fade. Simple, drink hoppy beers quickly

 

[Sandimas]

Surely not that quick? Just finished my last bottle of Nelson Sauvin Pale Ale brewed back in May and it was still very hoppy.

 

[matt76]

It only had 25 IBU's - EKG at the start and fuggles 5 mins (I think) before the end - so there wasn't much there to fade to begin with.

 

[MyQul]

As Leon says, it's hop fade. When I first started AG I brewed a first gold bitter. It only had about 9g of late hops and I was quite disappointed to discover the hop flavour had more or less completely disapeared by the time I came to the last bottles

 

[matt76]

Hmm... well... Okay then I suppose But really, that quick, in just over a month? Bogus...

Obvious questions:
Anything I can do in future to mitigate it?
Is this gonna be the case with everything I make?
Is this just the lot of a homebrewer?
How come commercial beers have a better shelf life?

On the bright side though, I still have 10 bottles remaining of a frankly effing superb Black IPA that will need polishing off before this dreaded hop fade malarky sets in

 

[foxbat]

How come commercial beers have a better shelf life?

From Brewdog's "How we bottle" article:

After dry hopping and before filtration we hold the beer at 0° for 7 days. This period ensures stability and shelf life in the bottle without adding nasty preservatives or additives to our beers.

 

[MyQul]

Hmm... well... Okay then I suppose But really, that quick, in just over a month? Bogus...

Obvious questions:
Anything I can do in future to mitigate it?
Is this gonna be the case with everything I make?
Is this just the lot of a homebrewer?
How come commercial beers have a better shelf life?

On the bright side though, I still have 10 bottles remaining of a frankly effing superb Black IPA that will need polishing off before this dreaded hop fade malarky sets in

The simple answer is, add more late hops. A fairly recent HB trend is to add no bittering hops at all and just add a shed load (and I do mean a shed load, especially if their lower IBU hops) of late hops to achieve the IBU target and maximum hop flavour.

Their are quite a few things you can do to add hop flavour and aroma, such as flame out/whirl pool additions, dry hopping, hop teas, even stuff like the pros do such as using a hop rocket. Dont worry young padawan, as you try out more HB techniques you'll find the right ones for you, to give you the flavour/aroma/mouthfeel your after in your beers

 

[brewhaha]

What's your bottling process like? Any splashing or ingress of air could mean that you're getting some oxidation that would dull the hop flavour & lead to a less than tasty beer.

 

[matt76]

The simple answer is, add more late hops. A fairly recent HB trend is to add no bittering hops at all and just add a shed load (and I do mean a shed load, especially if their lower IBU hops) of late hops to achieve the IBU target and maximum hop flavour.

Their are quite a few things you can do to add hop flavour and aroma, such as flame out/whirl pool additions, dry hopping, hop teas, even stuff like the pros do such as using a hop rocket. Dont worry young padawan, as you try out more HB techniques you'll find the right ones for you, to give you the flavour/aroma/mouthfeel your after in your beers

Ahh... Interesting for two reasons:
1. The IPA I'm brewing at the moment was late hopped so I know what you mean (the gravity sample I took the other day tasted amazing too ). As far as I'm concerned I'm sold already on late hopping.
2. This sounds like you're proposing hops as a natural preservative, like in the origins of IPA, right?

 

[matt76]

What's your bottling process like? Any splashing or ingress of air could mean that you're getting some oxidation that would dull the hop flavour & lead to a less than tasty beer.

Hmm... Yeah, could be. This is AG#1 I'm talking about afterall... From memory I hadn't quite got syphoning down to a tee at this point - I think there was some air ingress and fizzing in the tube. Good to know though, I've fine tuned this since so it's much better now.

 

[MyQul]

Ahh... Interesting for two reasons:
1. The IPA I'm brewing at the moment was late hopped so I know what you mean (the gravity sample I took the other day tasted amazing too ). As far as I'm concerned I'm sold already on late hopping.
2. This sounds like you're proposing hops as a natural preservative, like in the origins of IPA, right?

Hops are both antibacterial (which is why you can dry hop without infecting your beer) and a preservative in fact almost everthing about beer is preservative as alcohol is a preservative too

 

[Leon103]

Your questions have been answered but professionals have better equipment (hop rockets etc) and fresher ingredients.

 

[Brew Dad]

But the last few bottles have been less impressive - it's still carbonated and clear but the fresh flavour has gone and it's now more yeasty and like... well, like $h1t homebrew to be honest.

... it's been stored the last few weeks in the garage...

I think the responses you've had are bang on, but wondering if there are windows in your garage? Could be sunlight hitting the bottles, and your beer is getting a bit skunky.

 

[Ghillie]

I have to disagree with those who have said that hop fade is what has made your beer taste like yeasty $h1t homebrew...

Hops do fade over time of course, but you're talking <8 weeks since bottling day. That's not a long time pal, not by any stretch.

I've had 6 month old IPA's that are still good. Hop fade will not turn a beer you're happy with into one that tastes bad.

Sanitiation is always worth looking at, along with cold crashing (to clear your beer well before bottling, ensuring there's no trub getting into your bottles) and of course conditioning temperatures. They should be as consistent as your fermentation temps if possible.

 

[Leon103]

I have to disagree with those who have said that hop fade is what has made your beer taste like yeasty $h1t homebrew...

Hops do fade over time of course, but you're talking <8 weeks since bottling day. That's not a long time pal, not by any stretch.

I've had 6 month old IPA's that are still good. Hop fade will not turn a beer you're happy with into one that tastes bad.

Sanitiation is always worth looking at, along with cold crashing (to clear your beer well before bottling, ensuring there's no trub getting into your bottles) and of course conditioning temperatures. They should be as consistent as your fermentation temps if possible.

There wasn't much hops in there, and certainly not ipa levels

 

[Oneflewover]

There wasn't much hops in there, and certainly not ipa levels

Yeah, but even beer with not much in the way of hops shouldn't taste like 'sxxt home brew'? I'm inclined to agree with Ghillie.

 

[matt76]

Thanks all for the additional suggestions, much appreciated

Just checked my notes, it was a 10.5-11L brew which yielded 15 X 500ml bottles... I added 12g EKG at the start of the boil and 23g Fuggles after 55 mins...

So really not a lot of hops, and only 25 IBU's - certainly nowhere near IPA territory.

With this little hopping maybe a little hop fade would make a big difference??? On the other hand I'm pretty sure there was some bubbling and fixing where I connected my syphon tube to the racking cane - so maybe it's oxidation (but for the record, the latter is now fixed )

 

[Ghillie]

There wasn't much hops in there, and certainly not ipa levels

I agree Leon, but I still can't see a beer going from what the OP deemed as good to ****** in 8 weeks from bottling... Maybe from good to mediocre or average, but not bad.

I'd be very keen to have a taste of said beer, out of interest. And I would bet a lot of money that the poor taste was more a result of stressed yeast, poor sanitation, oxidisation or excessive amounts of trub in bottles. Maybe a combination of the four. Certainly more likely than hop fade.

 

[matt76]

To be clear, it's not gone bad, it's not suddenly repellent...

Flavours are very hard to describe - I had a bottle last night but more in the name of research (really!).....

It's drinkable but just not enjoyable, like it's dull, it's lost the crisp refreshing "i think I'll have another sip" zing it had originally.

I have two bottles left - if i could get one up to you then you're welcome to try it...