First NEIPA attempt

[alsch890]

In recent brews I have been expanding my knowledge by using adjucts (vanilla, maple syrup, cocoa, candi sugar etc) and now I want to have a go at a brew with water adjustments. I want to try a NEIPA and have read a couple of really helpful posts on how to adjust for water and how the grain bill, hop schedule etc should be.

Few things:

- I see RO water mentioned. I normally just brew with tap water. Its pretty good over here (Prague) although I have no idea of the chemical composition of it. I don't even know where to get RO water to be honest. I will try and find an analysis of our local water. Do you think it would be a big issue to use tap water? I understand this is a difficult question to answer without knowing what the water is like but I guess its the same water that is used in millions of litres of pilsner type beers over here.

This is the water profile from the post I read:
There are multiple directions to go here. Currently, I am partial to the following water addtions - 100% RO water. I add per gallon of mash and sparge water -
Gypsum = .9 grams/gallon
CaCl = .4 grams/gallon
Epsom = .1 gram/gallon
Canning Salt = .05 grams/gallon

and here is the simpler option from the same post:
***Many people ask about a more general guide to water because they do not know what their own water profile is, or they have not made the jump to using a water profile software. I use B'run water, and the above profile. However, if you just want to get in the ballpark of something "similar" to start with..... The simplest solution is this:
100% RO water for both mash and sparge.
Per 5 gallons of mash water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum
Per 5 gallons of sparge water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum

So I was going to go somewhere in between these.

my recipe below comes out as boil 19l/batch 15l, OG 1.064/FG 1.016, ibu 20 and abv 6.6%

For the malt bill I have this so far:

3.7kg pale malt (74%)
400g Oats (8%)
400g wheat (8%)
200g flaked barley (4%)
200g carapils
100g melanoidin (2%)

I added the carapils after phoning a friend but I am still unsure if my Oats addition should not be higher? I have Melanoidin since that post added Honey malt and I can't get that. And also I tend to add a small amount of Melanoidin to many of my brews!

Hops wise I have Citra and Mosaic that I have to use up and was going to add a little Amarillo:
Amarillo 20g @60 (16ibu)
Amarillo 20g @5 (4 IBU)
CItra 20g and Mosaic 20g Whirlpool
1st dry hop 30g Citra and 40g Mosaic
2nd dry hop 40g Mosaic.

I know that Galaxy is the big fave but I don't have any in stock and I have done two brews with Galaxy in the last few months. Would it be sorely missed?

Fermenting with Lallemand New England.

Any tips, comments, questions? Please! This is a step into the unknown.

 

[MickDundee]

A few things of input from me. I’m not an expert though, I’ve just done my second ever NEIPA, and the first one was when I was pretty much a beginner so it wasn’t really a proper NEIPA.

You don’t need RO water - it’s used only to give you a “blank canvas” for mineral additions. If you are in Prague then your water is probably pretty soft, my local microbrewery reckons our water profile is similar to Pilsen so we are probably not a million miles away from each other profile wise. I’ve only just started looking at water profiles but for mine I just added a shitload of Calcium Chloride as NEIPAs are high in chloride to give them that “juicy” mouthfeel.

Hop-wise, my opinion is that Mosaic is more essential in a NEIPA than Galaxy although Galaxy is a great hop. I’d forego the 60 and 5 min additions and move them to whirlpool. NEIPAs are quite low in IBUs compared to “normal” IPAs and you’ll get plenty of bitterness from the whirlpool hops. I’d be looking to up the dry hops if I were you as well.

 

[alsch890]

Wow, thanks for the advice, thats a really good start. I'm glad to hear that about the RO water.

I will definitely remove the 5 min and add more dry hops then. I just noticed the plan I found had a flame out and a whirlpool and I read it as just one addition so I'm clearly short so will shift the 5min to flameout and increase it! The other plan I had does have a small 60 min addition and I can't quite get my head around not having one (darn stubborness) so I might just half it rather than remove but I'll see.
I'll need to buy some more hops to increase the dry hop though (or use something from the freezer. I do have a packet of Enigma that I don't have plans to use for anything but not sure it would work?) I can get more Citra or Amarillo easily and Mosaic fairly easily or I can probably get hold of Galaxy but I am leaning against adding Galaxy as like I said I just did two brews with Galaxy.

 

[MickDundee]

Wow, thanks for the advice, thats a really good start. I'm glad to hear that about the RO water.

I will definitely remove the 5 min and add more dry hops then. I just noticed the plan I found had a flame out and a whirlpool and I read it as just one addition so I'm clearly short so will shift the 5min to flameout and increase it! The other plan I had does have a small 60 min addition and I can't quite get my head around not having one (darn stubborness) so I might just half it rather than remove but I'll see.
I'll need to buy some more hops to increase the dry hop though (or use something from the freezer. I do have a packet of Enigma that I don't have plans to use for anything but not sure it would work?) I can get more Citra or Amarillo easily and Mosaic fairly easily or I can probably get hold of Galaxy but I am leaning against adding Galaxy as like I said I just did two brews with Galaxy.

I’m sure I read somewhere about early versions of the style having a FWH addition of around 1% of the total hop bill if that helps with your stubbornness.

 

[Leon103]

I wouldn't use RO only because verdant say you shouldn't.
Get rid of the 60 and 5 min additions.
Add 20 amarillo to the whirlpool.
Adjust 1st dry hop to a max of 10g each and all the rest for 2nd dry hop.

What yeast will you use.

 

[MickDundee]

I wouldn't use RO only because verdant say you shouldn't.
Get rid of the 60 and 5 min additions.
Add 20 amarillo to the whirlpool.
Adjust 1st dry hop to a max of 10g each and all the rest for 2nd dry hop.

What yeast will you use.

He’s said Lallemand New England in the OP. I’ve been impressed with the Verdant one in my newly kegged one.

 

[alsch890]

Could you use their verdant yeast for this style? I saw it at the (online) shop and was tempted to chuck one in the basket for later as it sounds interesting and I've never used any of their yeasts.

Thanks both, this is great!

 

[Leon103]

Could you use their verdant yeast for this style? I saw it at the (online) shop and was tempted to chuck one in the basket for later as it sounds interesting and I've never used any of their yeasts.

Thanks both, this is great!

Yes verdant would use it in a neipa

 

[alsch890]

My recipe says to add gypsum but when I google it I get some sort of building plaster? is that what I am supposed to put in? I am not sure about that!

 

[JockyBrewer]

On the subject of water treatment, there’s really no point doing it unless you know what your starting point is (i.e. what’s in your water).

Don’t throw gypsum (calcium sulphate) or calcium chloride in blindly. Aside from anything else, until you’ve really got a recipe nailed and can brew it consistently, you will not notice any difference from adding gypsum or calcium chloride. They are really small tweaks, and won’t make an average beer good.

The beat thing you can do at the moment is understand what alkalinity is, how to adjust it, and how it will affect your mash pH.

 

[alsch890]

On the subject of water treatment, there’s really no point doing it unless you know what your starting point is (i.e. what’s in your water).

Don’t throw gypsum (calcium sulphate) or calcium chloride in blindly. Aside from anything else, until you’ve really got a recipe nailed and can brew it consistently, you will not notice any difference from adding gypsum or calcium chloride. They are really small tweaks, and won’t make an average beer good.

The beat thing you can do at the moment is understand what alkalinity is, how to adjust it, and how it will affect your mash pH.

Yep, point taken. I have managed to get hold of a water profile for our tap water but I'll need to translate it from Czech to English I guess. My motivation has come from trying to expand my knowledge in my last few brews, using adjuncts and making water adjustments, but sounds like there is more to it than that!

 

[alsch890]

Going back to the hop schedule. I bit the bullet in the end and ordered a packet of Galaxy to add to the mix as per the recipe I am basing this on. I don't have enough Citra though to follow the recipe exactly. Wonder if anyone has any advice on the below?

This is the hop schedule per the recipe (for 6.5 gallons):
Warrior 0.75oz @60
1oz each of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy @switch off
1oz each of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy @whirlpool (30 min hop stand)
1.5oz Citra/1oz Mosaic/0.5oz Galaxy @5 days
1.5oz Citra/1oz Mosaic/0.5oz Galaxy @12 days

Converting to metric, substituting the Warrior for Amarillo, adjusting the late additions per my stock and reducing to my batch size (although not exactly since I believe my hop socks reduce my utilisation) I came up with this:
Amarillo 15g @60
25g each of Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy @switch off
25g each of Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy @whirlpool
25g each of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy @5 days
25g each of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy @10 days

Any ideas, comments? I know the recommendation above was to remove the intial addition but as its in the original recipe I left some in, just reduced it. I wonder if I should differentiate the volumes of individual hops in the dry hop? the reason I didn't is basically I was replacing his additional Citra with additional Galaxy. I could go like 25/20/15 in the dry hops to accentuate the difference but usually at dry hopping I put equal amounts in (just cos its quick and easy to do that).

 

[JockyBrewer]

First of all I would also suggest dropping the 60m addition.
Secondly I’d really recommend doing the dry hop at the end of fermentation having dropped the temperature a bit. Dry hopping during fermentation is just inviting diacetyl and keeping the beer on that much hops more than a few days things can get a bit grassy.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Yep, point taken. I have managed to get hold of a water profile for our tap water but I'll need to translate it from Czech to English I guess. My motivation has come from trying to expand my knowledge in my last few brews, using adjuncts and making water adjustments, but sounds like there is more to it than that!

Water treatment is a pretty advanced subject that has a minor effect. Until you are making consistently good beer there’s little point in delving into it, because to really make adjustments with it you need to get a real analysis of your water, and then know how to keep monitoring it.

Go read this - if it seems a bit too in depth then maybe come back to it in future: Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

 

[Leon103]

Get rid of the 60 min addition and the 'first switch off' hops. Go big at whirlpool but reduce the first dry hop. You will want the first dry hop to do the bio transformation at high krausen, whenever that is with your yeast.

 

[matt76]

I may be a bit late as you may already have brewed this, but...

I recently made my first NEIPA, with Galaxy, Mosaic and Citra. If I did it again I would leave out the Galaxy and use Amarillo instead - there's something about Galaxy (well, I think it's coming from the Galaxy) that's just too intense.

In addition I would say that even though I only added hops on the boil for 10 and 5 mins it was still to bitter, though that could just be the Galaxy effect.

Final comment, I think you really do have to go crazy to limit oxygen exposure at packaging. Mine is still drinkable but I think it has oxidised to some extent, probably because I syphon to an open bottling bucket to batch prime and then bottle from there.

Best of luck

 

[alsch890]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I have brewed already, did it on Thursday. Was a pretty successful one by all accounts and the airlock was bubbling away today. I did take a peak inside last night (I know, I know, couldn't help me self) and it was probably the most beautiful krausen I've ever had!

The taste out of the sampling tube was very smooth and silky but a bit of bitterness. And the colour was slightly darker than I wanted, even at just 2% of melanoidin.

I didn't use a hop bag like I normally do and it meant the chill down took much longer and draining it into the FV was a pain. I'll use hop socks for the dry hopping.

I've got some sabro, pekko and enigma in the freezer, I was going to so some other brews with them but already thinking if this one comes off half decent I might do another with a combo of those. I'll see.

 

[alsch890]

I may be a bit late as you may already have brewed this, but...

I recently made my first NEIPA, with Galaxy, Mosaic and Citra.

By the way love the look of your recipe, adding rye seems pretty unique!

 

[matt76]

By the way love the look of your recipe, adding rye seems pretty unique!

Haha, thanks - I'd love to say it was some inspired genius on my part but honestly I was just using it up...

While I was researching the recipe I stumbled upon this Mike Tonsmiere recipe - I figured if rye is good enough for him then it's good enough for me!

 

[AlDaviz]

Hi
I’ve made 6x Neipas upto now, using brewdogs hazy OG as a start point, I’m adding now only around 40g total hops at hop stand once temperature is dropped to below 80 deg, None at all in the boil !
Wow the last one was wonderful