First failed batch

[GaSh65]

Hi folks,

I found a basic All Grain recipe on here, got the ingredients, bought a 15L stock pot and away I went.

The first (5L) batch was good, perfectly fine and very drinkable beer.

So for the second batch, I doubled the ingredients to make 10L. All went well and I managed to fill 27 x 330ml bottles. The first bottle I opened was incredibly cloudy and had quite a nasty after taste. I figured that obviously something was wrong, so I poured another and found the same issues.

Any suggestions where I could have gone wrong?

 

[fury_tea]

It could be a few things. It doesn't sound like an infection but can't rule that out. Are they overcarbonated at all?

Have a read of this:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/beer-haze-cloudy-homebrew/
Another possibility is that it could be related to oxygen, or it could be that the yeast hasn't quite flocculated yet.

How long have they been in the bottle?
How are you transferring to bottle?

You could try putting a few bottles in the fridge, wait a week and try one. If it's still not right wait another week and try another.

Apart from that

 

[GaSh65]

It could be a few things. It doesn't sound like an infection but can't rule that out. Are they overcarbonated at all?

Have a read of this:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/beer-haze-cloudy-homebrew/
Another possibility is that it could be related to oxygen, or it could be that the yeast hasn't quite flocculated yet.

How long have they been in the bottle?
How are you transferring to bottle?

You could try putting a few bottles in the fridge, wait a week and try one. If it's still not right wait another week and try another.

Apart from that

Thanks for replying, I'll have a read of that link.

The carbonation seems to be OK, in fact that was the only thing that appeared alright. I used carbonation drops, one per bottle.

They were bottled with a syphon directly from the FV. Then kept in the house for two days, before transferring to the garage for a further twelve.

Admittedly, the two bottles I tried were opened last Thursday (7th) and I've not tried any others since. So it's now 18 days in the bottle, 16 since placing in a cooler environment.

I'll refrigerate some and see if that helps.

 

[foxbat]

The first bottle I opened was incredibly cloudy and had quite a nasty after taste.

Can you have a look at this list and have a stab at which of those off-flavours most corresponds to the one you are tasting? Perhaps start at 10 (sour) and 17 (phenolic) as they seem to be the most commonly experienced.

 

[The Baron]

Not related to the off taste but 2 days to carb up/the yeast to eat the sugar does not seem enough for me and the cloudiness may be that the yeast is still active even if the garage is coldish

 

[GaSh65]

Not related to the off taste but 2 days to carb up/the yeast to eat the sugar does not seem enough for me and the cloudiness may be that the yeast is still active even if the garage is coldish

That's interesting, because with every batch of beer I've made (I started back in January), after the primary fermentation has finished, I put the bottles or barrel in my cloakroom for two days before transferring to the garage for a further 12 days and that's always turned out fine.
How long would you suggest could be better?

 

[GaSh65]

Can you have a look at this list and have a stab at which of those off-flavours most corresponds to the one you are tasting? Perhaps start at 10 (sour) and 17 (phenolic) as they seem to be the most commonly experienced.

Thanks for that. I'll have a read through that list, but will probably need to open another bottle first, as it just tasted wrong, I don't recall exactly what the flavour reminded me of.

 

[fury_tea]

That's interesting, because with every batch of beer I've made (I started back in January), after the primary fermentation has finished, I put the bottles or barrel in my cloakroom for two days before transferring to the garage for a further 12 days and that's always turned out fine.
How long would you suggest could be better?

Usually 7-10 days at fermentation temperature or slightly higher (if possible).

The yeast likely did their job in the 2 days but they are also working on cleaning up off flavours in this time so it's always better to give them enough time to do so.

You could try putting a few bottles somewhere warm for a week (you could invert them first for a few minutes to rouse any that have settled on the bottom into suspension again), see if that has any effect.

Treat it like an experiment and try to learn from it. A bad batch is always a bummer especially because you probably waited a month to try it but if you can learn from it you will grow as a brewer, in confidence and skill! Good luck!

 

[GaSh65]

Usually 7-10 days at fermentation temperature or slightly higher (if possible).

The yeast likely did their job in the 2 days but they are also working on cleaning up off flavours in this time so it's always better to give them enough time to do so.

You could try putting a few bottles somewhere warm for a week (you could invert them first for a few minutes to rouse any that have settled on the bottom into suspension again), see if that has any effect.

Treat it like an experiment and try to learn from it. A bad batch is always a bummer especially because you probably waited a month to try it but if you can learn from it you will grow as a brewer, in confidence and skill! Good luck!

Now I'm confused. So I ferment the beer for about a week, then bottle or barrel it, then leave in the warm for a further 7-10 days and then put into a colder environment for 10-12 days?

Thanks for the "putting a few bottles somewhere warm for a week" tip though, as a previous tip said to refrigerate, so I can compare both warm and cold after a week to see what's worked.

 

[fury_tea]

Now I'm confused. So I ferment the beer for about a week, then bottle or barrel it, then leave in the warm for a further 7-10 days and then put into a colder environment for 10-12 days?

Thanks for the "putting a few bottles somewhere warm for a week" tip though, as a previous tip said to refrigerate, so I can compare both warm and cold after a week to see what's worked.

A typical rule of thumb is 2+2+2.
2 weeks fermenting, 2 weeks 'warm conditioning' and 2 weeks 'cold conditioning'.

Even when the airlock stops bubbling there is still fermentation happening so 1 week is sometimes not enough, and if you stop it early you can end up with off flavours.

2+2+2 is just a guide and many brewers will tell you there's a different way to do it, and to be honest there ARE loads of different ways, some yeasts need much less than that and some need more.

It's about finding what works for you and gives you the results you want, but it's always good to have a starting point.

Hope this has helped

 

[GaSh65]

A typical rule of thumb is 2+2+2.
2 weeks fermenting, 2 weeks 'warm conditioning' and 2 weeks 'cold conditioning'.

Even when the airlock stops bubbling there is still fermentation happening so 1 week is sometimes not enough, and if you stop it early you can end up with off flavours.

2+2+2 is just a guide and many brewers will tell you there's a different way to do it, and to be honest there ARE loads of different ways, some yeasts need much less than that and some need more.

It's about finding what works for you and gives you the results you want, but it's always good to have a starting point.

Hope this has helped

I think where I'm potentially going wrong (in general, not necessarily with this particular batch), is that I started with kits (still doing them as well) and am now trying to do AG, but I'm still applying the basic instructions from the kits.

Maybe I was lucky with the first smaller batch of AG and my luck ran out with the second batch.

Thanks for all the help with this.

 

[Twopan]

A typical rule of thumb is 2+2+2.
2 weeks fermenting, 2 weeks 'warm conditioning' and 2 weeks 'cold conditioning'.

Even when the airlock stops bubbling there is still fermentation happening so 1 week is sometimes not enough, and if you stop it early you can end up with off flavours.

2+2+2 is just a guide and many brewers will tell you there's a different way to do it, and to be honest there ARE loads of different ways, some yeasts need much less than that and some need more.

It's about finding what works for you and gives you the results you want, but it's always good to have a starting point.

Hope this has helped

Thanks for this handy benchmark. I have always given the bottles two weeks in the house in the warm before moving to cool storage/fridge for another two before drinking. Re primary fermentation, I have found some brews need longer than two weeks. I have just done a Festival kit Belgian pale ale. It's at 22 days, and is still creeping down to an SG below 1.006. Using an ISpindel is a bit of an eye opener as to how fermentation continues really slowly.

 

[The Baron]

What is happening is you are falling foul of the kit makers optimistic suggestions of how quick you can make and drink beer(they want to sell kits so the quicker they suggest sells more).
As Fury Teas says the general homebrew guidlines are 2+2+2