Fermenting under pressure

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

 

[Leon103]

My reaction when fireside ales homebrewers serves up a neipa fŕom a pb

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

My reaction when fireside ales homebrewers serves up a neipa fŕom a pb

Don’t be a fool.
I wouldn’t dream of it. Do you see the point I was making? Are you going to make some sort of sensible commentary on the debate. Or are we just going to pass the time with whatever this is?

 

[phildo79]

Let's get the boys from Keg King and Keg Land in on this debate. I mean, it worked out so well last time

 

[Buffers brewery]

The pressure in a King Keg is limited to about 15psi but this is more than enough for carbonating a NEIPA or anything else except maybe lager or very fizzy cider.

I think I might be tempted to have a go. Can’t be that hard

 

[Leon103]

Don’t be a fool.
I wouldn’t dream of it. Do you see the point I was making? Are you going to make some sort of sensible commentary on the debate. Or are we just going to pass the time with whatever this is?

This is me saying you don't know ****.

People can use whatever they want. Just another tool. Do breweries use them - yes. Does it make good beer- no the beer needs to be good in the first place.
Does it improve your beer and improve the brewers experience - in my experience it does that.
Does it make bland beer - if it was bland in the first place.

Now let people use whatever they want.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I think I might be tempted to have a go. Can’t be that hard

Brave!

 

[BlackRegent]

This is me saying you don't know ****.

People can use whatever they want. Just another tool. Do breweries use them - yes. Does it make good beer- no the beer needs to be good in the first place.
Does it improve your beer and improve the brewers experience - in my experience it does that.
Does it make bland beer - if it was bland in the first place.

Now let people use whatever they want.

Might be helpful to reset the terms of the debate here. This wasn't one side telling the other that they're wrong to use pressurisable FVs. Rather, it was a discussion around understanding the limits of what such a vessel can do versus what it can't do. In fairness to @Fireside Ales Homebrewery he wasn't knocking people for using them as far as I could tell. You're right that people can use whatever they want, but it's also fair to have a debate so those people can make an informed choice.

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

This is me saying you don't know ****.

People can use whatever they want. Just another tool. Do breweries use them - yes. Does it make good beer- no the beer needs to be good in the first place.
Does it improve your beer and improve the brewers experience - in my experience it does that.
Does it make bland beer - if it was bland in the first place.

Now let people use whatever they want.

It’s cool mate.
Sit on your couch or whatever, and get all worked up. Call me whatever you want. Because you simply missed the point of what I was saying. It’s ok though. Because I am happy to share it with you again. I can even simplify it for you if you are struggling.
I was simply asking, what are the benefits?? If anything, over what people have successfully been doing for many years. I even said that I was interested in giving pressure fermentation a go myself.
I never at any point said people shouldn’t do it. I am an advocate for people experimenting and trying new things.
I think on a forum full of like minded people, we should be able to have a friendly debate once in a while.
Don’t trip over yourself trying to wrap your head around all that though mate. You might hurt yourself.

 

[Leon103]

Might be helpful to reset the terms of the debate here. This wasn't one side telling the other that they're wrong to use pressurisable FVs. Rather, it was a discussion around understanding the limits of what such a vessel can do versus what it can't do. In fairness to @Fireside Ales Homebrewery he wasn't knocking people for using them as far as I could tell. You're right that people can use whatever they want, but it's also fair to have a debate so those people can make an informed choice.

Then surely it doesn't need a debate. Just list what it can do, which most retailers do.

 

[Leon103]

It’s cool mate.
Sit on your couch or whatever, and get all worked up. Call me whatever you want. Because you simply missed the point of what I was saying. It’s ok though. Because I am happy to share it with you again. I can even simplify it for you if you are struggling.
I was simply asking, what are the benefits?? If anything, over what people have successfully been doing for many years. I even said that I was interested in giving pressure fermentation a go myself.
I never at any point said people shouldn’t do it. I am an advocate for people experimenting and trying new things.
I think on a forum full of like minded people, we should be able to have a friendly debate once in a while.
Don’t trip over yourself trying to wrap your head around all that though mate. You might hurt yourself.

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

Might be helpful to reset the terms of the debate here. This wasn't one side telling the other that they're wrong to use pressurisable FVs. Rather, it was a discussion around understanding the limits of what such a vessel can do versus what it can't do. In fairness to @Fireside Ales Homebrewery he wasn't knocking people for using them as far as I could tell. You're right that people can use whatever they want, but it's also fair to have a debate so those people can make an informed choice.

This is exactly it. I wasn’t knocking them for using it. I was just asking questions.

 

[dan125]

For what its worth, and in response to a couple of points raised here:-

Firstly - there are many paths to good beer. Brew and let brew people

I only started having some limited success in bjcp comps AFTER starting to pressure ferment in a fermentasaurus - all ales and including an ordinary bitter.

It's hopefully not the only reason my beers were improving, but for me the main advantage is the pressure transfer thing and lack of oxidation, especially in hoppy styles.


In my experience alot of HB has much more yeast character than it's commercial counterparts, maybe because of the naturally higher pressure the yeast is under in a larger volume

 

[AdeDunn]

Then surely it doesn't need a debate. Just list what it can do, which most retailers do.

That was the point I was trying to make, but some folks are too hung up on trying to keep method and equipment separate, which to be quite honest seems a bit daft to me, especially when it's for something that needs specialised equipment to do.... Good luck fermenting under pressure in a bucket with a tea towel over it....

The pros and cons tend to be shared between the method and the equipment, fermenting under pressure for example definitely doesn't make it easier to harvest yeast, but that has come up as a con... That's the equipment though. Same for seeing what's going on etc etc. Heck, there's even evidence that you get better fementation from using a conical fermenter WITHOUT pressure, so again, that's equipment, not method.

Insist on cutting it right back, and you have zero debate, and not a lot of discussion. You have "faster fermentation", hmmm, kveik, conical fermenters.... "suppressing flavour production from the yeast in lagers and the like", hmmm, use a yeast that can do the same thing, like uhm, kveik? lol It's NOT a debate, it's just a "This is what it can do, there are other ways of achieving the same goals, but if you fancy giving it a go then have a look at the various methods and types of equipment you can use", and yeah, lots of those threads already....

 

[dan125]

Another benefit I've just remembered is the ability to rouse dry hops with a quick release of pressure

 

[Leon103]

Another benefit I've just remembered is the ability to rouse dry hops with a quick release of pressure

Was just going mention that.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I think I might be tempted to have a go. Can’t be that hard

I’ve been thinking about this and can’t think of any reason why this wouldn’t be a good idea. Doo it, doo it, doo it.

 

[Buffers brewery]

I’ve been thinking about this and can’t think of any reason why this wouldn’t be a good idea. Doo it, doo it, doo it.

Found a recipe in my Greg Hughes Home Brew book. Next brew sorted

 

[foxy]

What are the proper homebrewers doing on the proper homebrew forums?
If people want to pressure ferment, let then, who cares. In fact you say you also do it, why do you do it?

If you read again I said I did do it, about 2 years ago, never improved on my ales, they went down hill. A lager just doesn't taste like a lager should, more like a commercial kolsch. I don't pressure ferment now and haven't in a long time, I use the apollo, and the snub nose before that. My dry hops go into a secondary which is purged through the fermenting gas, the transfer to the secondary is oxygen free. The only positive pressure is that created by the gas post. Increasing temperature will speed up fermentation without increased pressure. As I have stated, the spunding valve is there to cap towards the end of fermentation to carbonate the beer. That is how the breweries do it even the German breweries making lager, they have horizontal vessels for good reason.

 

[Leon103]

If you read again I said I did do it, about 2 years ago, never improved on my ales, they went down hill. A lager just doesn't taste like a lager should, more like a commercial kolsch. I don't pressure ferment now and haven't in a long time, I use the apollo, and the snub nose before that. My dry hops go into a secondary which is purged through the fermenting gas, the transfer to the secondary is oxygen free. The only positive pressure is that created by the gas post. Increasing temperature will speed up fermentation without increased pressure. As I have stated, the spunding valve is there to cap towards the end of fermentation to carbonate the beer. That is how the breweries do it even the German breweries making lager, they have horizontal vessels for good reason.

Perhaps it's other factors affecting your beer? As Dan mentioned, he has won countless awards for his pressure fermented beer.