Feedback on my proposed setup for first all-grain adventure!

[Richard2020]

Hello all,

I've been reading the forums with great interest. you seem like a very friendly bunch. I've brewed about 6 kits now and think I've got the hang of the basics, as far as sanitising, bottling and kegging goes.... I've got all the essentials, a few FVs, sanitiser, hydrometer, heat pad, syphon, etc, etc.

My wife very kindly bought me an Electrim boiler for Christmas- one with the stand-alone electronic temperature control. Hooray!

I'd like to give all-grain brewing a go. It seems that there are as many set-ups as there are recipes. How does the following proposed set-up sound?

Vessel 1: our trusty steriliser boiler as my hot liquor tun: pressed into service instead of its usual role sterilising home-made juice and chutney. Connect that to:
Vessel 2: a standard plastic 25 litre fermentation vessel with a lid and spigot. This will be promoted to my "No 1 Mash Tun". Run the water for mashing from V1 into V2 and put the grain in V2, inside a grain bag. if I insulate it with an old duvet hopefully I won't loose too much heat, so no need for it to have a heat source. I can stick it on the heat pad I suppose, just to be extra careful. Then run off the wort into:
Vessel 3: the Electrim boiler. Do the boil in that, then chill through my shiny new copper coil, then run off into FV for pitching as usual.

Any thoughts or comments? I think I could get away with omitting V2 and just mashing and boiling in the Electrim using the BIAB method, but I like the sound of at least giving sparging a go. Some people seem to also do BIAB and hoist the grain bag out of the mash tun onto a sieve and sparge through that back into the mash tun, and boil from there, or even do the dunk-sparge method into a totally separate spare FV, but a lot of the videos of people doing that sort of business seem to be made by shifty Aussie types (joking...).

To be honest I'm most worried about the sparge, my Plan A is to try fly-sparging by connecting V1 to a watering can rose gerry-rigged above V2 as I run off into V3. Would that work? I don't want to get too ambitious for my first effort. I read somewhere that it's very sensible to try to just get the basics right first time around.

As I say, any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Richard

 

[chrisb8]

Sounds like a very reasonable 3 vessel system similar to what I use. I would suggest looking at silicone tubing for the hot liquid transfers if you haven't already as these can be used with very high temperatures. Personally I think the watering can rose affair is unnecessary and may not be made of a food grade plastic. You could omit this and start simply with the tube from the HLT running directly into the mash tun. Don't worry about the sparge, just balance the flow of sparge water in with that of the wort draining out - you may be able to extract a few more gravity points by using more elaborate methods but I think you are right to concentrate on getting the basics right first.

For reference a picture of my setup can be seen in the post here Klarstein fullhorn

 

[user 18729]

Hello all,

I've been reading the forums with great interest. you seem like a very friendly bunch. I've brewed about 6 kits now and think I've got the hang of the basics, as far as sanitising, bottling and kegging goes.... I've got all the essentials, a few FVs, sanitiser, hydrometer, heat pad, syphon, etc, etc.

My wife very kindly bought me an Electrim boiler for Christmas- one with the stand-alone electronic temperature control. Hooray!

I'd like to give all-grain brewing a go. It seems that there are as many set-ups as there are recipes. How does the following proposed set-up sound?

Vessel 1: our trusty steriliser boiler as my hot liquor tun: pressed into service instead of its usual role sterilising home-made juice and chutney. Connect that to:
Vessel 2: a standard plastic 25 litre fermentation vessel with a lid and spigot. This will be promoted to my "No 1 Mash Tun". Run the water for mashing from V1 into V2 and put the grain in V2, inside a grain bag. if I insulate it with an old duvet hopefully I won't loose too much heat, so no need for it to have a heat source. I can stick it on the heat pad I suppose, just to be extra careful. Then run off the wort into:
Vessel 3: the Electrim boiler. Do the boil in that, then chill through my shiny new copper coil, then run off into FV for pitching as usual.

Any thoughts or comments? I think I could get away with omitting V2 and just mashing and boiling in the Electrim using the BIAB method, but I like the sound of at least giving sparging a go. Some people seem to also do BIAB and hoist the grain bag out of the mash tun onto a sieve and sparge through that back into the mash tun, and boil from there, or even do the dunk-sparge method into a totally separate spare FV, but a lot of the videos of people doing that sort of business seem to be made by shifty Aussie types (joking...).

To be honest I'm most worried about the sparge, my Plan A is to try fly-sparging by connecting V1 to a watering can rose gerry-rigged above V2 as I run off into V3. Would that work? I don't want to get too ambitious for my first effort. I read somewhere that it's very sensible to try to just get the basics right first time around.

As I say, any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Richard

Sound good. You can keep it simple and just use two vessels- a boiler that doubles as a HLT and Kettle. That will save cost and clean up time. You can run off into a bucket as you sparge

 

[Richard2020]

Personally I think the watering can rose affair is unnecessary and may not be made of a food grade plastic. You could omit this and start simply with the tube from the HLT running directly into the mash tun.

Thank you! It's v reassuring to have the feedback.

Yes I did mentally gloss over the "food grade" bit but you're right, it may be sensible to err on the side of caution. I've ordered some tubing to go from the HLT to the mash tun, oddly the tap on the HLT takes a hosepipe diameter more or less, so I've ordered that size. I may make a very simple sparge using the "madly attack a BBQ tray with a fork" method I saw suggested somewhere, which will at least dissipate the water somewhat. As you say, getting the flow right seems to be key. I've ordered some mechanic's brake pipe adjustable clips to go on the pipe and slow the rate as needs be.

 

[Richard2020]

Sound good. You can keep it simple and just use two vessels- a boiler that doubles as a HLT and Kettle. That will save cost and clean up time. You can run off into a bucket as you sparge

Thanks! So do you mean just mash and boil in the Electrim?

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

Thanks! So do you mean just mash and boil in the Electrim?

I can't see any reason why you can't use the electrim boiler to mash and then boil

What I used to do was run off the mash tun as I sparged into a bucket and then just pour it all back in

What I have done now is set up a simple pulley system to lift and suspend the mash bag over the mash liquor whilst I sparge - obviously you need to get your mash and sparge water quantities right (these should be in the recipe)

Remember that the human race has been brewing beer for over 10,000 years - just do what you are comfortable with - it's harder to mess up than you think

 

[chrisb8]

I've ordered some mechanic's brake pipe adjustable clips to go on the pipe and slow the rate as needs be.

Will the HLT not have a tap which you can turn down? If so then there may be some overthinking going on here. As others have said, it really is harder to mess up than you might think. Just be careful to be safe with the hot liquids and you will be fine.

 

[Richard2020]

Will the HLT not have a tap which you can turn down? If so then there may be some overthinking going on here. As others have said, it really is harder to mess up than you might think. Just be careful to be safe with the hot liquids and you will be fine.

Thanks for all the help!

It's one of those flicky-off and on taps, I am not sure I could get it to slow the rate, it looks like it's binary off or on. But after the comments on here, I think I'll just give it a blast and see what happens. what can possibly go wrong!? I will report back here. Still waiting for Get Er Brewed order of the extract kits and my chiller. I may also revert to my original Plan A, which was just to use the Electrim for the mash, hoist the bag up, sparge into it and run into a spare FV, and then decant the lot back into the Electrim for the boil. That may well be the simplest.

 

[chrisb8]

Go for the simplest option that works for you and have fun, good luck with it all

 

[user 18729]

Thanks! So do you mean just mash and boil in the Electrim?

I heat sparge water in my kettle, pump into the mash tun- then to sparge I re-fill the boiler with the correct amount of sparge water, heat to the desired temp (about 85 degrees) then fly sparge whilst draining the mash run into a bucket then I tip the lot back into the kettle to boil simples

 

[chriffle88]

+1 for mashing and boiling in the Electrim

as for the sparge - you can keep it really simple and just use a litre jug to pour water over the grain bed (or your grain bag) in an even fashion. Makes it easy to keep track of how many litres you have used and you can regulate evenness of coverage and speed very easily. Personally I can get higher efficiencies using this method than with more complex approaches (with all other aspects being equal).

 

[AXW123]

+1 for mashing and boiling in the Electrim

as for the sparge - you can keep it really simple and just use a litre jug to pour water over the grain bed (or your grain bag) in an even fashion. Makes it easy to keep track of how many litres you have used and you can regulate evenness of coverage and speed very easily. Personally I can get higher efficiencies using this method than with more complex approaches (with all other aspects being equal).

I would agree with this. Mash and boil in the trusty peco. Simply hoist out the mash bag , sparge carefully through the bag and then commence your boil all in one vessel. But your original plan will work just will take a bit longer with a bit more clean up.

 

[Dads_Ale]

Hopefully this link will still work and may be of interest. I am still using the mash tun shown , although I have improved the insulation jacket, and actually prefer it to the expensive SS Brewtek one I have.
I am in the process pf updating it with some of the extra kit I now have. Feel free to ask any questions

DIY all grain gear | The HomeBrew Forum

 

[Richard2020]

Help! I've just started my brew day and I've hit a snag or two already!!

I put 15 litres of mash water at 71 degrees into the Peco, and poured in the grain. the top half of the grain was totally dry- 15 litres isn't enough to cover it all. so, I knotted the bag and just dropped it in like a big teabag (tried to give it all a bit of a stir first so the grain would all get wet).

THEN the temperature of the mash started dropping, it went down to 60! so I've fired up the element of the Peco to keep it at 66 for the hour mash. is that ok? I am worried the grain bag may burn on the element, but not sure what else I can do. it's only giving it short burst of juice to keep the temperature up, so hopefully nothing bad will happen. Help! help!

 

[chriffle88]

Help! I've just started my brew day and I've hit a snag or two already!!

I put 15 litres of mash water at 71 degrees into the Peco, and poured in the grain. the top half of the grain was totally dry- 15 litres isn't enough to cover it all. so, I knotted the bag and just dropped it in like a big teabag (tried to give it all a bit of a stir first so the grain would all get wet).

THEN the temperature of the mash started dropping, it went down to 60! so I've fired up the element of the Peco to keep it at 66 for the hour mash. is that ok? I am worried the grain bag may burn on the element, but not sure what else I can do. it's only giving it short burst of juice to keep the temperature up, so hopefully nothing bad will happen. Help! help!

You'll be fine - no harm in giving it a stir (try not to aerate) and moving the bag around a bit to avoid scorching.

Next time you could use a bit more strike water and just reduce your sparge accordingly.

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

Help! I've just started my brew day and I've hit a snag or two already!!

I put 15 litres of mash water at 71 degrees into the Peco, and poured in the grain. the top half of the grain was totally dry- 15 litres isn't enough to cover it all. so, I knotted the bag and just dropped it in like a big teabag (tried to give it all a bit of a stir first so the grain would all get wet).

THEN the temperature of the mash started dropping, it went down to 60! so I've fired up the element of the Peco to keep it at 66 for the hour mash. is that ok? I am worried the grain bag may burn on the element, but not sure what else I can do. it's only giving it short burst of juice to keep the temperature up, so hopefully nothing bad will happen. Help! help!

I think it unlikely that the bag will be damaged

Just think about what happened

Your water was at 71C

But what temperature were the grains at?

I brew in my garage, currently my grain is barely above freezing

So what I calculate is a strike temperature - which I usually have at about 80C, so when the grain goes in the temperature ends up being as close as possible to the mash temp

You did absolutely the right thing turning the temp back up to reach the mash temp, the quicker it reaches that the more efficient the mash will

Now in future you can guess the necessary strike temp (as I usually do) - or have a look on the internet for a strike temp calculator

Well done on starting your first brew

Just remember that the human race has been brewing beer for over 10,000 years - it's harder to mess up than you think

 

[Richard2020]

Thanks!! Yes good point about the grains. I’m brewing in my barn, it’s blimmin’ freezing. About 3 degrees.... well I stuffed the bag into the wort and cranked the peco to 66 for an hour mash. No harm seems to have been done!

I sparged with the bag in a sieve and brought the lot up to a boil. It’s at a decent rolling boil now though the peco is indicating 97.5. My own handheld thermometer directly in the wort is bang on 100. And it is boiling (and I am not half way up a mountain). So all good!
Original gravity of 16 litres mash minus 5 for the grain so 11 litres mash before sparging was .046; after sparging 14 litres its .024 in 25 litres pre-boil wort. Both readings at 66 degrees. No idea if that’s bad or good!!

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

Thanks!! Yes good point about the grains. I’m brewing in my barn, it’s blimmin’ freezing. About 3 degrees.... well I stuffed the bag into the wort and cranked the peco to 66 for an hour mash. No harm seems to have been done!

I sparged with the bag in a sieve and brought the lot up to a boil. It’s at a decent rolling boil now though the peco is indicating 97.5. My own handheld thermometer directly in the wort is bang on 100. And it is boiling (and I am not half way up a mountain). So all good!
Original gravity of 16 litres mash minus 5 for the grain so 11 litres mash before sparging was .046; after sparging 14 litres its .024 in 25 litres pre-boil wort. Both readings at 66 degrees. No idea if that’s bad or good!!

This calculator might be of use

https://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/
As you boil you will lose 2 or 3L of liquid - this will increase the Gravity reading i.e. same sugar in less water

See what it is at end of boil and use calculator to correct for temperature

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Good luck Richard! You’ll be amazed how good it turns out, trust me!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Do you have a plan for keeping the fermentation warm enough?