English Pale Ale

[pilgrimhudd]

Hi all,

Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this?

An English Pale for Spring, approx 19l batch (roughly 40 IBU but my recipe builder doesn't have Ernest Hops)

4 kg Pale
300g Pale Crystal 59 ebc
200g CaraPils
200g Wheat (not sure about this addition)

25g Challenger @ 60 22.4 IBU
20g Bramling X @10 5.2 IBU
20g Bramling X @5 2.9 IBU
30g Ernest @5 3.5 IBU

Whirlpool 30g Ernest & Bramling X for 20 mins @70c

Liberty Bell Yeast Est ABV 5.3% (but I expect a few points lower which is fine)

 

[matt76]

Assuming they're in there for head retention/lacing I'd probably go with either CaraPils or Wheat but not both.

Opinion is divided on Carapils but on the limited comparisons I've done it seems to do something useful with my gear and water so that's what I tend to use if anything. That said I've seen commercial bitters that include wheat in the ingredients, presumably for the same reason.

I find wheat can hold on to water and so reduce efficiency unless you do a rest around 55degC so I don't use it unless specifically needed in a wheat beer for example (the again there's malted, unmalted, torrified etc so who knows!)

Haven't heard of Ernest before so will be interested to hear what you make of it.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Assuming they're in there for head retention/lacing I'd probably go with either CaraPils or Wheat but not both.

Opinion is divided on Carapils but on the limited comparisons I've done it seems to do something useful with my gear and water so that's what I tend to use if anything. That said I've seen commercial bitters that include wheat in the ingredients, presumably for the same reason.

I find wheat can hold on to water and so reduce efficiency unless you do a rest around 55degC so I don't use it unless specifically needed in a wheat beer for example (the again there's malted, unmalted, torrified etc so who knows!)

Haven't heard of Ernest before so will be interested to hear what you make of it.

I use CaraPils more out of habit now, it doesn't feel right making beer without it, so yes you're right I probably wouldn't have used both. You're right, i've been paying more attention to commercial beer ingredients and i'd say 90% have wheat in them.

Apparently a new fangled English hop to rival those pesky American ones.

 

[samale]

Archer and Godiva hops are another you should try. I am still waiting to try harlequin hops, my usual supplier don't stock them

 

[Cheshire Cat]

What’s the importance of getting Ernest?

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Archer and Godiva hops are another you should try. I am still waiting to try harlequin hops, my usual supplier don't stock them

You did that Belgian Pale Ale with those didn't you? It was nice.

 

[dave_77]

I really like Ernest.. something like Gooseberry to me, should go well with bramling. Isn't bramling like berry flavours?
I would keep the wheat. Wheat gives some character, not sure if carapils does

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I really like Ernest.. something like Gooseberry to me, should go well with bramling. Isn't bramling like berry flavours?
I would keep the wheat. Wheat gives some character, not sure if carapils does

Yeah blackberry, plum bit of spiciness, looking at the flavours of the hops I think they'd get on together. Maybe I'll sack in the carapils then.

 

[Oneflewover]

Yeah I agree on the wheat, I really like a bit in a pale ale. I've never really thought that carapils offers much, but then I've not used it often.

Never used bramling X in a pale beer, only ever in porters and stouts, so would be interested in how that turns out. I like challenger, I think it is underrated as a late addition.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Yeah I agree on the wheat, I really like a bit in a pale ale. I've never really thought that carapils offers much, but then I've not used it often.

Never used bramling X in a pale beer, only ever in porters and stouts, so would be interested in how that turns out. I like challenger, I think it is underrated as a late addition.

Brewdog did a Bramling X IPA which I copied, apart from clearing issues it was really nice, I cut back on the hops a little to make it more of a pale rather than an IPA though.

 

[alsch890]

Have you used Liberty Bell yeast before? Only reason I ask is that the one time I used it I didn't get great results. Now, I know that I didn't store that and another yeast as well as I normally do but it still doesn't entice me to give it another try.

Recipe looks pretty decent. I'd be inclined to suggest subbing out the Wheat for either Munich or Vienna at a slightly higher amount, just to get a bit of a bready, malty texture. but thats just my preference. In reality what I'd probably end up doing would be swap the wheat for melanoidin and ruin the entire beer...

 

[foxy]

Yeah blackberry, plum bit of spiciness, looking at the flavours of the hops I think they'd get on together. Maybe I'll sack in the carapils then.

I would keep the carapils as a late addition has minimal effect on the colour or sweetness, what it brings to the party is body and head retention. I use wheat malt in one of my EIPA's 350 g

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Have you used Liberty Bell yeast before? Only reason I ask is that the one time I used it I didn't get great results. Now, I know that I didn't store that and another yeast as well as I normally do but it still doesn't entice me to give it another try.

Recipe looks pretty decent. I'd be inclined to suggest subbing out the Wheat for either Munich or Vienna at a slightly higher amount, just to get a bit of a bready, malty texture. but thats just my preference. In reality what I'd probably end up doing would be swap the wheat for melanoidin and ruin the entire beer...

I've used Liberty Bell before, i've made some good beer and some poor beer with it, but i'm not sure I can blame the yeast for the poor ones, what was wrong with yours?

I've brewed it now, dropped the carapils and used wheat, we'll see how it goes!

 

[alsch890]

I've used Liberty Bell before, i've made some good beer and some poor beer with it, but i'm not sure I can blame the yeast for the poor ones, what was wrong with yours?

I've brewed it now, dropped the carapils and used wheat, we'll see how it goes!

I really think it was the storage as I got it as a gift when I was visiting family as opposed to just going to my supplier, where it is refrigerated, then driving 10 mins home and putting it in my fridge. It wasn't undrinkable but there were some fairly strong unusual/off flavours, like fusel booze.

I probably shouldn't judge the yeast but I didn't consider trying that one again. Not least because my supplier doesn't do MJ so it would be shipped to me.

 

[The Baron]

If you want a easy drinking Tropical English style Pale/IPA use the Tropical England mix from CML

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Am going to bottle the one in the OP early next week

The next will be another English Pale, this time one from Graham Wheelers 'Brew your own British Real Ale' and it will be an Exe Valley Spring Beer Clone. I've not had this beer in real life so I wondered if anyone had...I realise this isn't a hoppy beer but the late additions seem like an afterthought.

The recipe is (19l). OG1042 IBU 38 (No yeast in the recipe but i'll use CML Midland)

3540g Pale Ale

Target 24g @60
Styrian 5g @ Flameout/Hopsteep
Dryhop (a few cones of golding?)

So a couple of questions, a 5g Hopsteep? Seems a little feeble, would that give any flavour at all? And ' a few cones of goldings'? Would you take that to be a couple of grams?

 

[matt76]

Even with my small 11L-ish batch eyes those late/dry hop additions look tiny to me. FWIW I'd interpret "a few cones" as a handful - if you have any leaf hops I suppose you could weigh a handful???

I'm reading that recipe as what BJCP calls British Golden Ale, which in turn I read as a kind of "this is what would happen if we make a European pale lager type thing but using British ingredients and brewing practices."

So depending how clean your yeast is you might end up with something a bit lagery (not that that's necessarily a bad thing).

And some pale lagers can have modest late hop additions, plus the typical hops are quite subtle anyway.

So I guess you could roll with it and go with the specified amounts, or up them a bit too something more "typical".

I think I went overboard with the hops (EKG) in my English Amber Ale, which you tried, but your recent Exmoor Gold Clone was very nice so maybe use those to gauge it if you decide to go your own way???

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Even with my small 11L-ish batch eyes those late/dry hop additions look tiny to me. FWIW I'd interpret "a few cones" as a handful - if you have any leaf hops I suppose you could weigh a handful???

I'm reading that recipe as what BJCP calls British Golden Ale, which in turn I read as a kind of "this is what would happen if we make a European pale lager type thing but using British ingredients and brewing practices."

So depending how clean your yeast is you might end up with something a bit lagery (not that that's necessarily a bad thing).

And some pale lagers can have modest late hop additions, plus the typical hops are quite subtle anyway.

So I guess you could roll with it and go with the specified amounts, or up them a bit too something more "typical".

I think I went overboard with the hops (EKG) in my English Amber Ale, which you tried, but your recent Exmoor Gold Clone was very nice so maybe use those to gauge it if you decide to go your own way???

Yeah I thought it would be a bit pseudo lagery.... I mean in some ways I'd like to stay true to the recipe but I just have a feeling it'll be a bit tasteless. Think you're right I might have a look at my exmoor gold hop schedule and go somewhere in between.

 

[samale]

Am going to bottle the one in the OP early next week

The next will be another English Pale, this time one from Graham Wheelers 'Brew your own British Real Ale' and it will be an Exe Valley Spring Beer Clone. I've not had this beer in real life so I wondered if anyone had...I realise this isn't a hoppy beer but the late additions seem like an afterthought.

The recipe is (19l). OG1042 IBU 38 (No yeast in the recipe but i'll use CML Midland)

3540g Pale Ale

Target 24g @60
Styrian 5g @ Flameout/Hopsteep
Dryhop (a few cones of golding?)

So a couple of questions, a 5g Hopsteep? Seems a little feeble, would that give any flavour at all? And ' a few cones of goldings'? Would you take that to be a couple of grams?

5 g dry hop, that sounds like hop house 13

 

[Sandimas]

And ' a few cones of goldings'? Would you take that to be a couple of grams?

Yes, a small handfull. GH's dry hop additions of "a few cones" do make a difference with some of his brews, adding a subtle twist to the brew. However, in this case I don't think they'll make much of a difference, Styrians are quite powerful so I wouldn't think you wouldn't notice any Goldings used in addition as a dry hop.

Looking at your recipe, it's pretty much Wye Valley HPA, except they use a very pale malt. Target is quite harsh as a bittering hop but balances nicely with the Styrians, I make this regularly.

Old thread here on trying to clone HPA Wye Valley Hereford Pale Ale (HPA) Clone Recipe