Elements and fittings

[Springer]

Hi Vossy,
Looks like this is a good seller and keeping you busy, put me down for 4 m please. Where did I see a reference to nice connectors for such top rate hose ?
HERMS set up coming together nicely, no time to send progress update, but got pics ready for posting.
Having a bit of trouble deciding on heating elements, they seem to be getting in short supply and don't want to go down a route with no replacements, once I have drilled holes in the stainless !! The Element Company seem to be the only people left with the old fashioned kettle elements. I have considered immersion heaters, but think these should run at 80 degrees max and also I don't think they will stand up to cleaning after every brew in order to keep them working efficiently and to prevent overheating . Even pondering going back to plan A, the gas route.
Regards
Springer

 

[Vossy1]

put me down for 4 m please.

Will do S :thumb:

Where did I see a reference to nice connectors for such top rate hose ?

There's a few around on the forum at the mo, latest one here

 

[Aleman]

Having a bit of trouble deciding on heating elements, they seem to be getting in short supply and don't want to go down a route with no replacements, once I have drilled holes in the stainless !! The Element Company seem to be the only people left with the old fashioned kettle elements. I have considered immersion heaters, but think these should run at 80 degrees max and also I don't think they will stand up to cleaning after every brew in order to keep them working efficiently and to prevent overheating .

Take a look at the Water Boiler Elements at the Element Company . . . With one of then you only need 13mm holes . . . Of course they are more expensive than Kettle elements but do the job properly. . . .

. . . . As for immersion elements, My mates commercial brewery uses them with no problems . . . I've climbed into his kettle a couple of times to scrub them clean . . . Mind you I wouldn't want to replace his when they do go . . . they are 3 phase and 24KW . .. . . . Each :shock:

 

[Springer]

bit off thread hear I think, sorry,
I have consider those two legged elements, do they fix rigid enough to stand repeated scrubbing without wobbling about and leaking ?
I have an old three phase Bartlett boiler with 3 - five kw heaters but don't want to use them as replacements will not be available at a sensible price, and 5 kw is a bit in-between for 70 litres I think ? :?
Springer

 

[prolix]

springer they fix very solidly in the inner skin of a thermo pot I have no problems scrubbing them down

 

[Springer]

Thanks for that Prolix,
I quite fancied this option, at the top of the list then. I think the kettle type ones might be hard to get hold of in while, so wanted a lasting solution. Only problem is insulating the terminals satisfactorily ?

By the way it can't be quite right using Vossys thread to go on about heating elements ? What should I/we be doing to keep things in order ?
Back to the thread. Vossy, I presume that you let me know how much I owe you when you have the pipe ready, how do you prefer payment?
Springer

 

[Vossy1]

I will split this from the main post as it has gone off topic slightly and will post in the HERMS section tomorrow...time allowing :thumb:

5 kw is a bit in-between for 70 litres I think

I use 2 x 5.75kw elements for my brews which are anything up to 90ltrs, Brupaks kettles come with 2 x 3kw. If you look at the time difference between reaching boiling between the two options it's minimal, here second one down

By the way it can't be quite right using Vossys thread to go on about heating elements ? What should I/we be doing to keep things in order ?

Not really sure what you mean S :hmm:

If you're talking about the availability of kettle elements the only problem is that no one will buy them in bulk. Backer manufacture and sell them in bulk, and very reasonably, it's just that no HB shops are willing to have lots of elements/capital sitting around. This situation will reach a stale mate as no elements, be them old 3 pin or new kettle style, will be getting manufactured for that much longer...unless purchased in bulk. IIRC, when I ordered from Backer the minimum order was £250, handling charge £4.26, C&D £5, all plus VAT @17.5%.

If you are saying 3kw immersion elements are the way forward as standard for brewing equipment, we as a responsible forum, and you as an individual will be on very dodgy ground.
BruPaks boilers come with 3kw elements as standard, and say they need installing by a qualified electrician. 3kw elements in the household environment are usually on a dedicated circuit with a higher rating than your normal socket. Running a 3kw element will draw a minimum of 12 Amps and if the element or terminals are dirty more heat will be generated at the terminals than that associated with the standard draw . This isn't a problem with kettles as they are only on for a few minutes but our beer boilers can be on for hours. This can lead to a lot of heat being produced in a underated circuit with the possibility of fire or melting of the lead/socket as a result. You may also find you are not covered by your house hold insurance as a result of using such highly rated items continuously. There are a couple of reports on HB forums about melted sockets, so it's no joke!

The above is not meant to scare people away from using 3kw elements, lots of people do.
Used correctly they are very safe, but used incorrectly they can be very,very dangerous.
I know a lot of folk who use 3kw elements via a normal socket for brewing, but just cause they do, doesn't mean to say it's right.

By the way it can't be quite right using Vossys thread to go on about heating elements ? What should I/we be doing to keep things in order ?

Contact a member of admin or a moderator.
Why not ask me...I'm always at the end of a pm, and if you'd prefer not to, ask one of the of the other admin/mod team :thumb:

I presume that you let me know how much I owe you when you have the pipe ready, how do you prefer payment?

Will do It's looking like new year now as I haven't had confirmation of receipt of cheque yet....probably in a back log at Royal Mail

 

[Springer]

Merry Christmas to all and Vossy for the reply.

use 2 x 5.75kw elements for my brews which are anything up to 90ltrs, Brupaks kettles come with 2 x 3kw. If you look at the time difference between reaching boiling between the two options it's minimal, here second one down

As regards heating power, time is proportional to power, in this instance, neglecting a bit of heat loss over the different time periods. Put simply using 6kw will be about half the time of 3kw I believe ?

By the way it can't be quite right using Vossys thread to go on about heating elements ? What should I/we be doing to keep things in order ?

I was referring to subjects going off topic here, I am not the sort of guy to try to guide the world, those jobs are for people much smarter than me.
All my electrical work is done by a qualified electrician to current regs. (See P.S. one and three below ! )
Regards to all
Springer

P.S.It will soon be time to get into the Christmas spirit, think I might over do it a bit tonight, got plenty of stock to hand, bottled IPA, Scottish Light, Scottish Heavy and a corny of IPA. (Not thinking of binge drinking here you understand ) Quite seriously, apart from liking home bottled beer you can keep a check on how much you are drinking. Anyone have a desire to keep nipping to the corny for just another spot in the bottom of the pint glass ? :)
P.S.Thats a thought can I still call it Scottish Light / Heavy if it was brewed in Leicestershire :)
P.S.Anyone any idea why my mates are visiting more often than they used to
P.S.This post is nothing about silicon hose, sorry Vossy :)
P.S. Can you have a P.S. in an email :? :lol:

 

[Vossy1]

I was referring to subjects going off topic here

Looks like I went off topic... :lol:

I am not the sort of guy to try to guide the world, those jobs are for people much smarter than me

We can leave that to politicians...but then again you did say smart :hmm: :lol:

S do you think there would be much interest in elements being sold? I tried it once on Jims but I don't think people bought because the element lead was £10 alone for the old 3 pin style. Having said that, I think they came in at £22 all in and that's still cheaper then just the element from certain HB shops. I could ask Backer about the kettle lead style elements and see what they say :hmm:

P.S.It will soon be time to get into the Christmas spirit, think I might over do it a bit tonight, got plenty of stock to hand, bottled IPA, Scottish Light, Scottish Heavy and a corny of IPA. (Not thinking of binge drinking here you understand ) Quite seriously, apart from liking home bottled beer you can keep a check on how much you are drinking. Anyone have a desire to keep nipping to the corny for just another spot in the bottom of the pint glass ?

Sounds like a plan :drink:

 

[Springer]

Just a quick reply before I go to get some last bits and bobs in town, crackers and cranberry sauce are the orders from the most high. :lol: Incentive for me is that I could go into Wilkos or somewhere to get a cheap kettle for my HERMS exchanger, coming along nicely ready for brazing up now.

We are still of topic :) Not sure if it is a problem ?
Not used to the forum thing, so trying to do things right, as I find it quite easy to go walkabout on subjects, ask my mates .......... must be the age :lol:

The element thing really is quite a problem :? Not sure about the number people would buy and as you say you then need the correct plug and electrical supply? As mentioned to Prolix, I am getting quite tempted by those two legged jobs with only two holes to drill. Just need to get the plan to make the terminals 100 % safe. :) Is this lot why people go the gas route, can't help thinking about the heat losses with this approach ?

If I remember correctly some time ago I worked out LPG was 7 or 8p a kw as opposed to electric at 10p, but could not decide how much or the gas would actual heat the brew and how much would heat the world :? Nearly all of the electric energy will go into the brew .
That should set up some debate and it will all be off topic :lol:
Best Regards
Springer

 

[Vossy1]

We are still of topic Not sure if it is a problem ?

Don't worry about it I'll split it off later :thumb:

FWIW, I had exactly the same thoughts as yourself when I did my last build. I decided to buy 16 x 2.75kw elements which should see me through my brewing career. It was an expensive one off cost, but well worth it for me. My thinking was that my boiler will be a bit tatty if I do manage to use them up and a rebuild with immersion elements could be justified by then.

Having said that, if I had the cash available for a proper installation I would have gone for a dedicated circuit for my garage, something I am still considering, if I move house it's a definate. I even did consider using immersion elements 'as is' as I know so many people who do, and get away with it, but my house has the old wire type fuse box and I didn't fancy it :shock:

 

[Springer]

Went to town but could not face the 5 quid kettle in W's, even for the heat exchanger. Think I'll get a two legged one for this.
Regarding the boiler I think i will talk to the Heating element company after the holiday to see if immersions are good to work at boiling point and if so get two 2 1/4 inch bosses welded into my boiler.
I think one socket will cut in half and still give enough thread . 2 1/4 inch fitting are a bit rare, 2 inch ones were £9, 2 1/2 £16 but the 2 1/4 inch ones were £25 :? . That was at BES, could not find them anywhere else, any ideas ?
Need to sort this one its making my brain ache, :? I have enough power available 3 phase supplied in 6mm its just finding the right way to use it. :?
Springer

 

[jamesb]

Went to town but could not face the 5 quid kettle in W's, even for the heat exchanger. Think I'll get a two legged one for this.
Regarding the boiler I think i will talk to the Heating element company after the holiday to see if immersions are good to work at boiling point and if so get two 2 1/4 inch bosses welded into my boiler.
I think one socket will cut in half and still give enough thread . 2 1/4 inch fitting are a bit rare, 2 inch ones were £9, 2 1/2 £16 but the 2 1/4 inch ones were £25 :? . That was at BES, could not find them anywhere else, any ideas ?
Need to sort this one its making my brain ache, :? I have enough power available 3 phase supplied in 6mm its just finding the right way to use it. :?
Springer

I use standard immersion heaters, all you need to do is bypass the thermostat (thanks Mr Prescott), you can just screw the live wire into the other side of it - it's easy when you look inside them.

There's always Essex flanges if you don't want to go to the trouble of getting things welded. I''m pretty sure I've seen them in a 2 1/4" variety.

Will definately vote with V1 about having separate circuits for them. I've got a 40A feed to my brewery, with 3 16A radials for each immersion. Also gives me enough spare capacity for a few other things.

 

[Springer]

Thanks James,
Had in mind to remove the stats, to get things boiling, nice to know it works ok.
Had a quick look at the Essex flanges, think it will be more economical to get a socket, cut it half to make two and then go and see my mate, with some samples for him to pass judgement on.
Sound like you also have your electric supply sorted :)
Springer

 

[tubthumper]

try theese much cheaper
boss
or even theese
flange

 

[Springer]

Thanks for info Tt. The price looks ok on those, but I think I will go for a 2 1/4 bsp socket, cut it in half and get them welded onto boiler, job done for sure .
S