Electric trucks.

[Chippy_Tea]

Thank you.
You seem in a far better position than California, which was running diesel generators to power electric car charging stations, during power outages this last summer….

The vicious circle is still putting people off owning an EV -

Cost of buying the EV.

Many of us do not have off street parking so home charging is not an option.

Few public charging points,

Expense of using public charging points.

Battery longevity of used EV's.

If i lived in a house with a drive i would seriously consider an EV but i don't and public charging is so expensive that to use it all the time would mean i would gain little from owning the EV.

 

[foxy]

The vicious circle is still putting people off owning an EV -

Cost of buying the EV.

Many of us do not have off street parking so home charging is not an option.

Few public charging points,

Expense of using public charging points.

Battery longevity of used EV's.

If i lived in a house with a drive i would seriously consider an EV but i don't and public charging is so expensive that to use it all the time would mean i would gain little from owning the EV.

Over here Aldi has put in free charging stations in their car parks so you can charge while you shop.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Cynic mode on.

I wonder if they are low or high power output if low you would be lucky to cover the power used to get there.

 

[Awfers]

Finally a solution to trucks being powered by electric.

I remember seeing a show (might have been Top Gear back in the day) that said the solution to all of the transportation problems was to essentially recreate how Dodgems (aka Bumper Cars) work, a tether connecting to an electrical grid above the motorway, this would not only power the car but also recharge the batteries. Once the car/truck left the motorway, it would retract the tether and run on its own internal battery power. You could also recharge your car at home/work etc.

It's not a bad idea, it gets rid of "range anxiety" for the most part.

 

[roboto]

The future is hydrogen.

If we're making hydrogen from renewable energy anyway then why not just power the trucks directly? No idea if it is but it seems like it would be more efficient.

 

[Clint]

Could hydrogen be converted to a liquid,as LPG?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I wonder if they are low or high power output if low you would be lucky to cover the power used to get there.

In the UK they'll be 22kW, so a 40-minute charge would give you 30-40 miles.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Could hydrogen be converted to a liquid,as LPG?

It's one of the main options for transport use, but it means the vehicle has to carry a heavy tank to contain it, see :
https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage

 

[Chippy_Tea]

In the UK they'll be 22kW, so a 40-minute charge would give you 30-40 miles.

That's not too shabby, you could easily kill an hour if you did the shopping then had a brew.

 

[Awfers]

The problem with compressed hydrogen is that it is under a lot of pressure and hydrogen combusts very easily. So, in a possible road accident, if the hydrogen tank is ruptured, it can lead to an almighty explosion.. I think Thunderf00t on Youtube did a demonstration of what can happen, it wasn't pretty....

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Do hydrogen cars explode?
Hydrogen is of course highly flammable, that’s why it makes such a good fuel, however, because it is in a gas state at normal pressure it can be seen as safer than petrol or diesel. That’s because if the fuel tank were to somehow suffer a puncture, then the hydrogen would simply disperse into the air. Compare that to conventional fuel which could pool around the engine and potentially create a bigger fire risk.

Another more important reason that an explosion would be extremely unlikely is that, as with all fuels, hydrogen needs oxygen to cause a fire, and this wouldn’t be possible until the hydrogen had left the tank and mixed with enough oxygen. So therefore, in the extremely unlikely event of a fire, it would happen outside of the tank and wouldn’t cause the vehicle to explode.

https://www.leasingoptions.co.uk/advice/popular-topics/how-safe-are-hydrogen-cars

 

[Awfers]

Do hydrogen cars explode?
Hydrogen is of course highly flammable, that’s why it makes such a good fuel, however, because it is in a gas state at normal pressure it can be seen as safer than petrol or diesel. That’s because if the fuel tank were to somehow suffer a puncture, then the hydrogen would simply disperse into the air. Compare that to conventional fuel which could pool around the engine and potentially create a bigger fire risk.

Another more important reason that an explosion would be extremely unlikely is that, as with all fuels, hydrogen needs oxygen to cause a fire, and this wouldn’t be possible until the hydrogen had left the tank and mixed with enough oxygen. So therefore, in the extremely unlikely event of a fire, it would happen outside of the tank and wouldn’t cause the vehicle to explode.

I didn't say it would cause the vehicle to explode. However gas under pressure has a tendency to want to escape through even the smallest hole, once in the atmosphere it has enough oxygen to cause a rather large explosion if it does come into contact with heat or spark.

In addition, gasses under pressure can be nasty things. I don't know if you have seen a CO2 cannister that has fallen over and the valve knocked off/out, but the gas pressure is enough to turn the tube into a missile and pierce concrete, hence why they should always be secured/chained.

From what I have read, Toyota's hydrogen tanks in the Mirai are at 700 bar. Even if they can survive a gun shot, I would not want to be around one should it rupture for X, Y or Z reason, even if it wasn't on fire.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Study looking at the economics of electric trucks in China suggests some could be economic by 2025, most by 2030, and those dates could be brought forward with the right incentives (mostly involving pollution taxes on conventional trucks) - although that assumes there's enough lithium to make the batteries with, which is another issue.

https://theicct.org/publications/ze-hdvs-china-tco-EN-nov21

 

[Irishwizard]

I used to drive an electric milk float in the 80's - good fun, especially down hill with all those batteries on board

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Study looking at the economics of electric trucks in China suggests some could be economic by 2025, most by 2030,

The problem for us is the maximus an artic can carry is 44 ton and that's if the wagon has 6 axles the less axles the less it can carry, if you put a huge battery pack into these trucks you are going to knock their carrying capacity done a lot.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The problem for us is the maximus an artic can carry is 44 ton and that's if the wagon has 6 axles the less axles the less it can carry, if you put a huge battery pack into these trucks you are going to knock their carrying capacity done a lot.

See my posts above - you're also removing some heavy running gear, and the EU is giving leccy trucks an additional weight allowance so that some may actually have a greater load capacity than diesel trucks.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I thought weigh limits were put in place because of weak bridge etc

Today we will take a look at the weight of electric cars, which usually are much heavier than their conventional counterparts due to the battery packs - the heaviest single part. The data for dozens of models was provided by Bjørn Nyland, who measures the car's weight by the way of general reviews.21 Aug 2021

 

[Bernie]

One of the key problems with Hydrogen is that the easiest way to extract it is from natural gas which if I remember correctly produces CO2 during the process (If I am wrong on this please feel free to correct).

If we are going to start using Hydrogen on any scale surely we should be looking at producing it via Electrolysis (and ideally using renewable energy sources).

Why convert methane to hydrogen and carbon dioxide when the combustion of the methane at least uses all its calorific value?

 

[alfajerry]

Study looking at the economics of electric trucks in China suggests some could be economic by 2025,

Because of China's reliance on coal for power generation, these 'electric' trucks will be 56% powered by coal burning.

 

[EsterBanana]

Heavier vehicles == more damage to roads == higher road maintenance costs == more work for local councils == more damaged vehicles because well, local councils?

I have no idea if this actually translates into reality, but it popped into my head and I thought it funny so posted it