Electric cars.

[kenstel]

I don't care DD, because talking about sh-t you have no clue about is very shallow and guessing is not for me, anyway i wish you a very happy new year

I hope everybody can keep things civil. We're talking about cars here, nothing life and death, nothing of any real importance, just a mode of transport. That's all. Nothing worth getting upset about, nothing worth causing upset.

Rod, I won't even begin to pretend that I have even the smallest inkling about why you posted about the burning car. However, I always try to show people an appropriate level of respect even when I fundamentally disagree with their opinions, and though I don't understand your earlier post, and dislike the post I quote here, I'll continue to show you, and everyone else, that same appropriate level of respect. I think it's a hallmark of a strong forum when people can have different views and debate them without disrespect.

To comment on your quoted post though, I haven't witnessed anyone talking sh-t, and as for people having "no clue " I would respond in the contrary. It's quite clear, reading some of the posts, that many members do indeed, have more then a clue about what they post, and that some are pretty knowledgeable, in both positive and negative aspects of the discussion, not only about EVs but earlier, in posts about various aspects and technologies of electricity generation. Of course, you may have been referring to me., in which case I would have to strongly disagree. I don't normally or knowingly commit any of the indescretions you mention, but I suppose if I did, I probably wouldn't know

In terms of shallowness, I haven't seen much, its quite clear that some members have heartfelt opinions about various environmental issues, of which cars are a significant aspect. The only real lack of sincerety I've seen is from those who are opposed to, or criticise efforts to reduce man's environmental impact and in particular, the use of EVs but don't or can't explain their opposition.

I don't understand how one can claim to be opposed to something (anything) but not have a reason, and who enter into a discussion and offer criticism without any justification. It simply does not make sense, either to be opposed without reason, or to enter a discussion and simply state an opinion without being attempting to justify and defend that opinion.

Anyway, there's room in the world for a variety of transport and propulsion technologies, and there's room in all discussions for a range of opinions and I don't think this thread is any different.

Let's play nice together and remember that we have more in common than not.

BTW, I'm not interested in cars, I like a nice comfortable car, but they're simply just one way of getting from A to B. Just one way.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I don't care DD, because talking about sh-t you have no clue about is very shallow and guessing is not for me, anyway i wish you a very happy new year

You may know nothing about the subject and prefer to talk ***** others like me are interested in the subject and prefer a good debate, a lot of forums wouldn't let the ***** posts spoil the thread maybe we need to tighten moderation up in future.

 

[foxy]

You may know nothing about the subject and prefer to talk ***** others like me are interested in the subject and prefer a good debate, a lot of forums wouldn't let the ***** posts spoil the thread maybe we need to tighten moderation up in future.

That's why it is called a 'Forum' Everyone has a say, or an 'essay' to put a point across. Let's not spoil the fun. I vote no tightening up.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Para 3: yes, touch screens, love them or hate them. But you have a touch screen phone, tablet, laptop... Oh, but there is also voice commands. In many cars most operations in the car can be initiated by voice. And the number of operations and the number of vehicles using voice control is growing.

Again, Technology won't stand still, and probably, at some point, the manufacturers will organically move towards standard commands, meaning if you know the command, you can use it in any car. It's a lot cheaper to develop a few lines of code to perform an operation eg increase temperature by X; navigate to work; switch on rear demist; than to put a temperature knob in the car, because once the code is written, it only needs to be copied to the master code for a vehicle model, whilst a physical switch needs to be installed in every car and every model. Code can be updated remotely over the air. Physical changes have to be done inside the car, when it's off the road.

The new citroen e-c3 has buttons for hvac and this is a welcome kickback from one screen for all.

Trying to press a touch screen control whilst the vehicle is moving is not the safest control interface.
I totally get the voice command alternative. I speak and carefully ennunciate my commands to the car.

navigate to home
call Gillian

weirdly though although Gillian is pronounced as if spelt with a J - the car wont recognize it but does read back the command with the correct pronunciation, even though I had to say call Gill (as in fish part) ian

I can say "play rammstein" and that works but can't say "play random", I can say play rock that works. yet I can't say "switch music source to usb".
I have a source button on the steering wheel yet that only cycles through the different radio bands. It's a bit of a mish-mash really.

The idea of a common interface across cars is excellent, probably this is more likely to happen within Stellantis or VW group brands for instance than all manufacturers agreeing.

Even honda reintroduced a physical volume knob back to its touchscreen in the honda jazz.

not all new technology stands the test of time some quickly crashes and burns. I'm glad citroen have found a way to include physical buttons on a dash and be able to keep prices keen compared to other brands.

 

[Alastair70]

I assume you don't live in a house?

Sorry @kenstel, should have highlighted your inspired comment. And there was me trying to present cold hard real world figures in response to the EV fire claptrap all those months ago.

 

[Brew_DD2]

You may know nothing about the subject and prefer to talk ***** others like me are interested in the subject and prefer a good debate, a lot of forums wouldn't let the ***** posts spoil the thread maybe we need to tighten moderation up in future.

I'd prefer a looser hand on moderation. If people want to post unadulterated nonsense, let them. Only themselves they are showing up. This thread has been a good discussion on the pros and cons of EVs, and it's par-for-the-course that their will be those who denounce them, and nit pick stories that confirm their bias, regardless of the contrary evidence.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Sorry @kenstel, should have highlighted your inspired comment. And there was me trying to present cold hard real world figures in response to the EV fire claptrap all those months ago.

I question whether there's a point, when those who claim they have no agenda (but clearly do) will not read or accept your valid data.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

That's why it is called a 'Forum' Everyone has a say, or an 'essay' to put a point across. Let's not spoil the fun. I vote no tightening up

I get that but there is a fine line between opposing views on a subject and trolling.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I'd prefer a looser hand on moderation

I was joking.

 

[MattH1973]

Para 3: yes, touch screens, love them or hate them. But you have a touch screen phone, tablet, laptop... Oh, but there is also voice commands. In many cars most operations in the car can be initiated by voice. And the number of operations and the number of vehicles using voice control is growing.

Again, Technology won't stand still, and probably, at some point, the manufacturers will organically move towards standard commands, meaning if you know the command, you can use it in any car. It's a lot cheaper to develop a few lines of code to perform an operation eg increase temperature by X; navigate to work; switch on rear demist; than to put a temperature knob in the car, because once the code is written, it only needs to be copied to the master code for a vehicle model, whilst a physical switch needs to be installed in every car and every model. Code can be updated remotely over the air. Physical changes have to be done inside the car, when it's off the road.

small point - but many who have ever tried to deal with computer operated call centres that are supposed to recognise voice commands are unlikely to choose to subject themselves to more of this torture in their cars. That said, I dont disagree at all that manufacturers will try to foist this on their customers because, as you say, microphones and touchscreens are ultimately cheaper than buttons. My hope is that the rebalancing we have started to see - with buttons being re-introduced for key functions like temperature and stereo volume - means that manufacturers now understand that operating a touchscreen when watching ****ography on your sofa is one thing (assuming this is a very common tablet use case), and operating one whilst trying to watch the road in a moving car is quite another.

And re your latter post I agree with you on the need for *all* posters to avoid being abusive to others. That should not be confused though with suggesting it is unacceptable to hold minority or even incorrect views - it should be perfectly acceptable to post what others might perceive as complete poppycock, as long as we are all polite. Let us not forget that a majority once thought the earth was flat......

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Para 3: yes, touch screens, love them or hate them. But you have a touch screen phone, tablet, laptop...

We all know you are not allowed to touch phones and sat-nav screens when on the move are you allowed to touch these screens to change the heater temperature/direction etc?

 

[AlBrew]

We all know you are not allowed to touch phones and sat-nav screens when on the move are you allowed to touch these screens to change the heater temperature/direction etc?

You can use your phone whist driving, if it's safe to do so and as long as it's not "in your hand", for tasks such as sat nav/phone conversations etc.

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

 

[kenstel]

And re your latter post I agree with you on the need for *all* posters to avoid being abusive to others. That should not be confused though with suggesting it is unacceptable to hold minority or even incorrect views - it should be perfectly acceptable to post what others might perceive as complete poppycock, as long as we are all polite.

I'm fully in support of people saying what they feel in a discussion as long as they're polite and respectful. However, a discussion is just that, you day whst you think, and justify it. If you don't justify what you're saying, you're not discussing simply stating opinions. The justifications also attempt to persuade others. Again, without justification, you're not attempting to persuade, just dictating.

Let us not forget that a majority once thought the earth was flat......

What, wait! You mean it isn't? When did that happen? I didn't see it on the news. (looks out of window {sorry, no emoji for that, admin, can you fix that please}). No, not round here, still perfectly flat. (shrugs shoulders). Some people got strange ideas. Huh. Not flat indeed. As if.

 

[AlBrew]

Best I could come up with

 

[kenstel]

To those who commented on voice control. Lol. Yeah. I get it. I find voice recognition in my new car pretty good. Don't think I've ever fooled it. My wife found out a command that turned the temperature way up - about 4 degrees. I then found you could increase it by however many degrees you wanted. I haven't tried anything stupid like 27 degrees, but theoretically...

Don't forget, voice recognition is relatively new, there in the background for years, but not widely used, and its EXTREMELY complicated. The actual technology isn't, but the wide range of Accents, even within one country, and, in English particularly, the way a group of letters can be pronounced differently eg cough (coff) vs though (thowe), or the way a word can be pronounced differently eg hook (huk vs huke), same with book, look etc, make intelligent recognition difficult.. These things always confuse foreigners, so how does a foreigner make a programme to understand a language even he doesn't understand?

 

[kenstel]

Best I could come up with

Roflmao bravo

 

[Chippy_Tea]

We all know you are not allowed to touch phones and sat-nav screens when on the move are you allowed to touch these screens to change the heater temperature/direction etc?

AIBrew - You can use your phone whist driving, if it's safe to do so and as long as it's not "in your hand", for tasks such as sat nav/phone conversations etc.

The laws in this country are a joke how can it be safe to read texts etc on the move whatever you are using to view them.


Can you use Apple CarPlay or Android Auto while driving?

Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are handy systems that allow your smartphone to be mirrored in your car’s infotainment screen. You can accept calls, read texts and play music from your phone.

The law in the UK allows drivers to use these systems while driving, but you should always make sure your focus is on the road and not on the screen.

Utilise the system’s voice command settings so you don’t need to take your eyes off what’s happening in front.

https://www.cinch.co.uk/guides/ask-the-experts/device-driving-laws

 

[kenstel]

manufacturers now understand that operating a touchscreen when watching ****ography on your sofa is one thing (assuming this is a very common tablet use case), and operating one whilst trying to watch the road in a moving car is quite another.

What, you want to watch ****ography whilst driving your car? Hands free I assume? That's what voice recognition is for!

Don't know where you live but pretty sure it'll be illegal. By the way, Tesla did not develop their autopilot for that purpose, there is absolutely no suggestion that Tesla drivers are ******* nor indeed are any other EV drivers, despite rumours.

Anyway, in my car, the browser display goes blank when the car moves, as does video media playback, pretty sure that's standard.

 

[AlBrew]

The laws in this country are a joke how can it be safe to read texts etc on the move whatever you are using to view them.

I regularly read (listen) and reply (by voice) to texts whilst driving.

I would never try to type anything though even if the phone is in a holder, I think this is explicitly illegal anyway although it looks to be quite surprising what you actually can do as long as you're doing it safely.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I don't understand how one can claim to be opposed to something (anything) but not have a reason, and who enter into a discussion and offer criticism without any justification. It simply does not make sense, either to be opposed without reason, or to enter a discussion and simply state an opinion without being attempting to justify and defend that opinion.

That is why we have politics. We are essentially emotional creatures and alot of our opinions on stuff is based on our feelings about it even if it's not backed up by fact or science. We are also very heavily influenced by certain people or organisations we decide to trust and they will always present an opinion or view on a topic in a biased way. People may deny thy are 'stupid' enough to be influenced by external things like this, but they are kidding themselves...that is why marketing exists and we're all, every single one of us are influenced by marketing.

Also things are never so black and white and alot of issues are multi faceted and people allocate different values to different elements of the issue, so even if you might offer up some perfectly logical justification to an opinion you hold that I don't agree with, I might not value that justification to the same degree as you and therefore will probably dismiss it. this is where the art of persuasion comes in, you have to persuade your 'opponent' to agree to your value system so that you have a common base from which to argue specific points and ultimately convince people to see things the way you see them.

If it was the case that we should only hold opinions we can justify in some quantitive way then explain why religion is still a thing.