Does over pitching lead to long conditioning times?

[Favershambrewer]

Hi

I'm on my fourth AG and learning along the way.

My process includes a three week ferment and then bottling. I get nice looking, clear well carbonated beer but it seems to take an age to mature. I'd say eight weeks in the bottle at room temperature before the beer is kind of ready (not that much of it lasts that that long). Prior that it's ok, but far from the glorious taste revelation others here describe after a couple of weeks in the bottle.

The only thing I can think of that might cause it is that I've been overpitching yeast: the full 11g for a 10l brew. Would that cause the excessive conditioning?

Ta

 

[MyQul]

It may not be the yeat but your water. I live in London and have hard water. My Stouts/Porters/Milds are great (especially after 4 weeks in the bottle) at hard water suits dark beer but I've always had trouble with my bitters. At best they're Ok even with a long conditioning time. I've recently started adjusting my water hardness for beer style. I currently have a ESB in the FV which is the first bitter I've adjusted the water profile on. Even though I cocked a few things up on it, and I haven't even bottled it yet, I tasted the sample jar yesterday and it tastes fantastic. The best Bitter I've ever made I think. I'm really looking forward to trying a properly conditioned bottle of it.

So with this in mind, what is your water hard or soft and what type of beer styles have you been making in particular the ones that are so-so?

Edit: The only other thing I can think it might be is stale grain. I recently made a mild with stale mild ale malt and it had a twang exactly like a kit (this is one of the reasons kits have twang becasue the LME goes stale). So I'm having to condition it for about 6 weeks - should end up ok though

 

[Favershambrewer]

Thanks MyQul

Your hard water theory might apply. I'm in East Kent where the water is hard and pretty chalky. My brews to date have been light coloured beers - lots of MO and a bit of wheat malt or Munich. I have a brown ale in the FV and am planning to brew a stout tonight so I can test the theory.

Assuming it is the water I guess my options are a) use bottled water - any suggestions? or b) Treat my water, which I imagine is a science in itself. Nevertheless if there was an add-a-bit-of-this-and-see-if-it-works solution I'd be willing to give it a go. What did you do?

 

[MyQul]

Yup, reckon it's your water. Light coloured beers need a alkalinity of less than 34ppm. My water is 188ppm that's why I couldnt make bitters (which need alkalinity less than about 50ppm)
Stouts and brown ales need alkalinity of about less than 140ppm so you hopefully will be ok unless you alkalinity it massively high.

Bottled water is a good option as you don't have to faff about testing and adjusting your own water but it is of course more expensive. May be do one or two brews with bottled water to see if that makes a difference to your beer and if it does have a go a adjusting your own water .
Not sure which bottled water is the best as I've never used bottled water to brew with but I think Ashbek from Tescum is supposed to be good

Water chemistry/adjustment isn't as hard as you think. It is complicated but if you just stick to Alkalinity/PH which as I understand things so far is the most important thing, water wise for brewing, so you should be ok.

First off check your water company on line to see if they do an online water report for your area. This will get you close to the info you need. My water co. (Thames water) publish last years water report for my area. Then input the figures into the water calculator on the forum up there ^^^^^ it'll tell you what you need to do. To adjust your water hardness you'll need some acid. I use Brupak CRS which I got from somewhere on the internet but I can't remember where. The water report will give you a good idea of your water alkalinity but testing it yourself is better. You can do this with a salifert Alkalinity test kit. Jims forum tells you how to adjust the figure you come up with in the test to put in the calc

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water_salifert.htm

Using acid to change the water alkalinity is quite simple to do but it is possible to overdo acid. So the other thing you can do to soften your water is to boil all of it for 30 mins leave the precipatent hardness to settle out then rack the water off, leaving the preciptant behind. This of course is a bit of a faff but has the advantage of you can't overdo it like acid

Anything else and I'll hopefully be able to help. I'm just starting to get into water treatment myself so it still all a bit new to me

 

[Favershambrewer]

Thanks myqul, that gives me loads to go on. I'll definitely look into my water report.

Also i'll try spring water on a recipie I've done before. That'll give me a good practical comparison.

Cheers

 

[MyQul]

Using spring water on a receipe you've don't before (make sure it's one of the pale ales of course) I think is definately the best first step as will tell you whether it's the water or not. If it's not - it'll be back to the drawing board

 

[Favershambrewer]

Update. It's the water. Latest brew was a traditional EKG hopped light ale. Mostly MO, it's the type of beer that I couldn't get right until now.

The Ashbeck has done the business. Four days in the bottle (three week ferment) and it's great beer. Aromatic, flavoursome, good head retention.

I've got a Saltaire Blonde on the go now just to make sure...

 

[MyQul]

Update. It's the water. Latest brew was a traditional EKG hopped light ale. Mostly MO, it's the type of beer that I couldn't get right until now.

The Ashbeck has done the business. Four days in the bottle (three week ferment) and it's great beer. Aromatic, flavoursome, good head retention.

I've got a Saltaire Blonde on the go now just to make sure...

Fantastic. Looks like you've cracked it. Now all you've got to decide is whether you want to continue using bottled water for your pale ales or start to look at adjusting your water alkalinity yourself

 

[Favershambrewer]

Indeed. Thanks for the suggestion by the way. Bottle is easy but pushes the price up a notch.

That said I paid £4.80 for a truly **** pint in Euston the other day...

Instinct tells me to treat my water. But I find the threads about it a bit baffling.

 

[rodabod]

That said I paid �£4.80 for a truly **** pint in Euston the other day...

Instinct tells me to treat my water. But I find the threads about it a bit baffling.

There are so many good pubs at Euston! Euston Tap, Bree Louise, Doric Arms, and the Fullers Pub in Kings Cross Station.....

I'd get yourself a Murphy's water report. Takes the mystery out if it as it gives you the treatment recommendations.

 

[Favershambrewer]

It wasnt one of those pubs! Agree those are all good. Bree Louise is literally just round the corner from work. I have wandered in once or twice...

 

[mirsultankhan]

Yup, reckon it's your water. Light coloured beers need a alkalinity of less than 34ppm. My water is 188ppm that's why I couldnt make bitters (which need alkalinity less than about 50ppm)
Stouts and brown ales need alkalinity of about less than 140ppm so you hopefully will be ok unless you alkalinity it massively high.

Bottled water is a good option as you don't have to faff about testing and adjusting your own water but it is of course more expensive. May be do one or two brews with bottled water to see if that makes a difference to your beer and if it does have a go a adjusting your own water .
Not sure which bottled water is the best as I've never used bottled water to brew with but I think Ashbek from Tescum is supposed to be good

Water chemistry/adjustment isn't as hard as you think. It is complicated but if you just stick to Alkalinity/PH which as I understand things so far is the most important thing, water wise for brewing, so you should be ok.

First off check your water company on line to see if they do an online water report for your area. This will get you close to the info you need. My water co. (Thames water) publish last years water report for my area. Then input the figures into the water calculator on the forum up there ^^^^^ it'll tell you what you need to do. To adjust your water hardness you'll need some acid. I use Brupak CRS which I got from somewhere on the internet but I can't remember where. The water report will give you a good idea of your water alkalinity but testing it yourself is better. You can do this with a salifert Alkalinity test kit. Jims forum tells you how to adjust the figure you come up with in the test to put in the calc

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water_salifert.htm

Using acid to change the water alkalinity is quite simple to do but it is possible to overdo acid. So the other thing you can do to soften your water is to boil all of it for 30 mins leave the precipatent hardness to settle out then rack the water off, leaving the preciptant behind. This of course is a bit of a faff but has the advantage of you can't overdo it like acid

Anything else and I'll hopefully be able to help. I'm just starting to get into water treatment myself so it still all a bit new to me

188ppm, thats amazing! Our tap water is 24PPM and the PH is neutral.

 

[rodabod]

Yeah, mine is 185ppm alkalinity in East London.

 

[MyQul]

188ppm, thats amazing! Our tap water is 24PPM and the PH is neutral.

It'd not the PH of the water your looking at it's the PH of the mash as the grains will alter the PH

 

[mirsultankhan]

It'd not the PH of the water your looking at it's the PH of the mash as the grains will alter the PH

yes evidently so. I can actually change the PH/acidity of my water with deionised water which goes through a food grade resin. One can remove everything so that it can be measured as 0 ppm - whether this is good for brewing with i cannot say. I am going to measure my mash PH next time.

https://byo.com/hops/item/1493-the-power-of-ph

 

[MyQul]

. I am going to measure my mash PH next time.

https://byo.com/hops/item/1493-the-power-of-ph

How are you going abut doing that? Have you PH meter? I have some narrow scale ph strips to measure my mash PH

 

[mirsultankhan]

How are you going abut doing that? Have you PH meter? I have some narrow scale ph strips to measure my mash PH

yes litmus paper I use it to test the water in my aquarium. You can get electronic devices but i just use the ol litmus paper.