Do you guys know this type of retro-beer?

[SkyStar]

In the USSR Soviet Union since 1960 till 1990 +/- there was a high industrial production of beer, i've searched over the internet but still did not found the recipe and how they brewed that kind of beer, i got only a few informations about that beer: once spilled from the kegerator or the cask (locals,bars) it had a light red cloudy colour, on the taste it was average bitter, not extremely bitter taste, but you still felt the bitterness in the beer.

The Main First Industrial Fermentators was supplied with internal Chillers and Heathers and they were lock-sealed pressurized fermentators.
They told me that beer had an average alchohol value that was around 3.8% to 4.2%

And the most important detail: the beer lasted 4-6 days. Even bottled beers lasted less than a week, (i asked what exaclty happened a week after bottling, even in the kegerators, wooden casks and barrels), after 4-5 days there was some "flakes" or white solid things...growing up in the beer...i can't really explain what exaclty was, but sounds more like a oxygen infection after the first spilling.

Do you know such a beer? the main factor was that it lasted less than a week and had an average bitterness taste.

 

[Alan_H]

NO :lol:

But why does it interest you..? it's unstable, so you plan to clone it and drink it within 4 days..?? :)

 

[SkyStar]

NO :lol:

But why does it interest you..? it's unstable, so you plan to clone it and drink it within 4 days..?? :)

yes, i would like to know how to recreate this kind of beer, i know the risks of doing a beer batch that has to be consumed in 3 days, but still, i would try to do this, it's more a nostalgic factor, to revive some tastes from the past rather than making a certain type of beer

 

[MyQul]

Do you speak Russian (or perhaps German)? I think your best bet would be a Russian (or may be a German one because East Germany was part of the soviet bloc of course) brewing forum. As I've never heard of this beer and it seems none of the forumites here have either

 

[Fil]

in the late 70's and early 80's i spent some time in poland, the general preference was for vodka but as i liked my beers i talked the local lads into joining me, the beer arrived at the table in a crate Many bottles were not sealed and only those that released pressure were drunk (less than 1/2 of each crate) at the end of the night we were charged for the empty upturned bottles returned to the crate, - when i realised i had been returning mine right way up .. Whoops

Mid 90's i was in Ukraine and sampled a few very nice dark lagers.. Just the talk in the bar, but the grain available was in short supply and they brewed whatever malt they could get their hands on as some bottles of one brand would pour a golden lager the next a dark. though it was a mad time for ukraine then probably not quite as bad as it is now with a full on russian invasion going on but they went on for years til 97 iirc without a currency using photocopied coupons, USD, and German Marks for trade.

 

[Richie_asg1]

See if you can find what hops they grow in that area. It may give a clue why it doesn't last long. They must be using local ingredients so start looking at what they are growing most of. :)

 

[SkyStar]

Do you speak Russian (or perhaps German)? I think your best bet would be a Russian (or may be a German one because East Germany was part of the soviet bloc of course) brewing forum. As I've never heard of this beer and it seems none of the forumites here have either

yes i talk russian very well, but i try to avoid any kind of social-brewing russian forums, before knowing homebrewforum.uk i've been looking there, and their overall knowledge is extremely limited, 80% of brewers there think that you can get a a finished and condinioned beer from the wort to the bottle in just 4 days!

altrought i've been looking there and i've seen some english pubs and bars that use the "real ale" serving method, they certify that a real ale english beer has to be spilled straight from the 2nd fermentator and from the first spilling the beer will have an oxygen infection so it has to last 5-7days maximum!

 

[Spoon]

altrought i've been looking there and i've seen some english pubs and bars that use the "real ale" serving method, they certify that a real ale english beer has to be spilled straight from the 2nd fermentator and from the first spilling the beer will have an oxygen infection so it has to last 5-7days maximum!

Yup, pretty much, although it's more like 3 days when you can tell the barrel is getting old.

With a quick yeast and low OG (i.e. English 'real ale') it's possible to get beer from wort to pump pretty quickly but 4 days it pushing it!

I suspect the bottled stuff was going off due to poor bottle caps (this is based only on the slightly stereotypical/xenophobic/racist assumption that everything coming out of the eastern block was rubbish, so including beer caps and bottling plants).

Not sure what white flakes would be, yeast being disturbed from the bottom of the barrel (hence it appearing just as the beer started to go off)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Russia#Breweries_and_beers
They do list "red" as a style, and I've seen a recipe that being soviet/red but can't remember what wen't into it.

 

[HebridesRob]

Yup, pretty much, although it's more like 3 days when you can tell the barrel is getting old.

With a quick yeast and low OG (i.e. English 'real ale') it's possible to get beer from wort to pump pretty quickly but 4 days it pushing it!

I suspect the bottled stuff was going off due to poor bottle caps (this is based only on the slightly stereotypical/xenophobic/racist assumption that everything coming out of the eastern block was rubbish, so including beer caps and bottling plants).

Not sure what white flakes would be, yeast being disturbed from the bottom of the barrel (hence it appearing just as the beer started to go off)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Russia#Breweries_and_beers
They do list "red" as a style, and I've seen a recipe that being soviet/red but can't remember what wen't into it.

Exactly the reasoning that lead me to believe the reddish colour might be rust.

 

[HebridesRob]

I know Wikipedia isn't always reliable but it appears there was only one beer of note available in Soviet Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhigulevskoye

 

[brumbrew]

Sorry to take this slightly off topic, but a friend said they had this in the shed for years. I'll let you guess the best before date.

Anyway as its a 'retro' beer thread. Anyone recognise this? I was not of legal age when it expired.

 

[brumbrew]

When I say a friend had it in the shed. He gave me a pallet of it.

It was rusty inside also. So I chucked it but kept this one for a laugh.

So that's my shed :-)

 

[Hoppyland]

after 4-5 days there was some "flakes" or white solid things...growing up in the beer...i can't really explain what exaclty was, but sounds more like a oxygen infection after the first spilling.

I reckon you're spot on with "oxygen infection"
The "white flakes" sound to me to be an infection which used to be known as Mycoderma candida. This builds up a white film floating on top of the beer, which easily breaks up into flakes if disturbed. It does need air to thrive, and it quickly spoils beer as it transforms alcohol into amyl acetate (as best I recall!) giving a smell like "pear drop" sweets. If you've got it in your brewhouse then everything needs serious sterilisation - but also it is a sign of bad practice, as I think it will not take hold unless your beer is exposed to air after fermenting out.

Well, personally, I wouldn't want to replicate a beer that had to be drunk before it was really ready, only because it it was already starting to spoil & would quickly become totally undrinkable if you didn't quaff it immediately :-?

Ah, but maybe that's just me :)

 

[SkyStar]

yea i think ill just give up on this research, after some websurfing the only informations that i got it that the beer had a min abv od 3.4 a color SRM of 4-8 and 15% adjucnts of 15% raw barley/soft wheat. but still nothing about the complete recipe p.p anyways thank you guys so much for your informations!

 

[HebridesRob]

yea i think ill just give up on this research, after some websurfing the only informations that i got it that the beer had a min abv od 3.4 a color SRM of 4-8 and 15% adjucnts of 15% raw barley/soft wheat. but still nothing about the complete recipe p.p anyways thank you guys so much for your informations!

How much more information do you need? That's actually quite a lot.

 

[jayjt29]

The white stuff could be Beer stones? (Calcium Oxalate) I think this builds up over time though.

Jay