do finings stop carbonation?

[cyderspace]

Hello all. My first post. Im Andy and I'm from Winchester, just above the Isle of Wight.

I have a question. ...

I just used gelatine finings on my cider and got it really clear. I've just bottled it and primed with brewing sugar, but my worry is whether the finings have stripped out too much yeast so it won't carbonate?

How long before I'll know either way? Should I have put a bit of yeast back in the bottle when priming? If so, would it cloud it again? I'm thinking of re-bottling?

If anyone can help I'd be grateful. : )

 

[oldbloke]

Dunno, hopefully somebody who does will be along shortly
I never use finings but I only do turboCider, nothing from real apples, so mine clear naturally.
If there is enough yeast left for carbonation, it drops out when it's done its job.

 

[alanwh]

You will tell in a couple of days one way on another. I never use finings on anything that needs natural carbonation for that very reason but I notice they sell beer finings in Wilkinsons so perhaps it is a method that is used where most but not all suspended yeasties are removed. Someone will be around soon who will have a better idea am sure. :-)

 

[cyderspace]

Dunno, hopefully somebody who does will be along shortly
I never use finings but I only do turboCider, nothing from real apples, so mine clear naturally.
If there is enough yeast left for carbonation, it drops out when it's done its job.

Yeah mine is real apples.That's handy to know, though, thanks.

 

[Cononthebarber]

The idea of finings is to remove the yeast so I would say that you will have very little (if any) yeast left in your bottles to carbonate? You can add more yeast into the bottles now which will carbonate and as oldbloke says, once its done it should drop to the bottom of the bottle leaving it clear.

As for how much yeast to add I've no idea as I've never done this but maybe someone else can help with that...?

Oh and welcome to the forum! :thumb:

 

[cyderspace]

The idea of finings is to remove the yeast so I would say that you will have very little (if any) yeast left in your bottles to carbonate? You can add more yeast into the bottles now which will carbonate and as oldbloke says, once its done it should drop to the bottom of the bottle leaving it clear.

As for how much yeast to add I've no idea as I've never done this but maybe someone else can help with that...?

Oh and welcome to the forum! :thumb:

Thanks Conon, that's useful. I'm thinking a pinch of yeast in each should do it. Will try it later and report back.

 

[Cononthebarber]

Yeah that sounds about right, I'd be interested to hear how you get on.

 

[Brewtrog]

When I had to add yeast to a beer that wouldn't fizz (still not sure why it wouldn't) I added about a grain or two of bakers yeast to each 500ml bottle (well, I put some yeast in the cap and dipped my finger into it, hoping only a few grains would stick, then threw them in.). As long as there is a little bit of yeast left you should be able to prime, it might just take longer, but don't take my word on that.

 

[cyderspace]

Cheers brewtrog I'll bear that in mind. What a great forum! First day and I have a plan!

 

[IPA]

Finings will not stop carbonation. I use sheet gelatin (3 sheets for twenty five litres) and in many years of brewing have never had a problem. My beer is extremely clear with just a very slight deposit on the bottom no thicker than a single coat of paint. I f you want to check that secondary carbonation is taking place put some in a 500ml plastic bottle and when you can't squeeze it you know that the yeast is doing its job. This usually happens before there is any trace of sediment on the bottom. Lastly give it long enough to take place especially if you don't use priming sugar.

 

[Drunken Horse]

No it doesnt stop carbination. The most fizzy beer I made (which was a bit too fizzy) I had used finings. It helps to settle sediment but doesnt completely remove the live yeast so its still okay. I generally give my beer 1 week in the warm and 3-4 in the cold to carb though, I dont know what finings will do if you do it for less time than that.

 

[hypnoticmonkey]

Yeast is a micro-organism, which means you need a microscope to see it. Finings will clear out any large collections of it, but you'll inevitably still have some left in the brew.

I've no idea myself if that would be enough to carbonate a brew, although given what others have commented, it sounds possible.

 

[cyderspace]

Thanks to you all for the replies.

the first ones were pro - adding yeast in the bottles, and I then went and re bottled, then saw the later comments from the 'wait and see, it'll probably carbonate' camp! So I'll let you know.

I have 2 more cider djs. Have just racked them off the sediment and topped up with tescos apple juice. I figured this will reduce the strength so I threw in some wine yeast to eat up the natural sugars in the juice and get the alcohol content back up. Is this insane?

 

[hypnoticmonkey]

Not insane, but slightly unnecessary. Unless you'd stabilised, there would have been active yeast left in there to ferment the sugar in the apple juice even before you'd put the wine yeast in.

 

[cyderspace]

Thanks Hypnotic, yes I should have thought of that. Will rmemeber for next time. Well they are both bubbling aay happily now.

What DO people do when they rack off and find the new dj is now only 2/3 full? Do they leave the airspace (risking infection?), or do they top up with something? I saw in a boook they were saying top up cider with water, but that sounds crazy and slightly depressing! Surely apple juice is the thing to use?

 

[oldbloke]

For cider I never rack, I just bottle, so it's not an issue. If I did need to rack I'd use AJ, you can't ever get too much apple into a cider.
With wine, I make sure I start off with enough sugars to be able to hit the desired ABV after topping up with water.

 

[Drunken Horse]

Thanks Hypnotic, yes I should have thought of that. Will rmemeber for next time. Well they are both bubbling aay happily now.

What DO people do when they rack off and find the new dj is now only 2/3 full? Do they leave the airspace (risking infection?), or do they top up with something? I saw in a boook they were saying top up cider with water, but that sounds crazy and slightly depressing! Surely apple juice is the thing to use?

Unles you stabilised to make a flattish cider the sugar in the AJ will ferment. So keep an eye on the sugar levels of the AJ or you could end up with a lot of sediment and/or gas.

I'd aim to make cider stronger than I wanted using as much AJ at the outset as possible (or is viable) so I could add the water later.

I did that with my first 3 attempts at cider and they tasted pretty good at bottling.

 

[cyderspace]

For cider I never rack, I just bottle, so it's not an issue. If I did need to rack I'd use AJ, you can't ever get too much apple into a cider.
With wine, I make sure I start off with enough sugars to be able to hit the desired ABV after topping up with water.

I will remember this, Oldbloke! Make it stronger than you need cso you wil need to dilute! Cheers

 

[cyderspace]

Update : So after worrying about using finings before 2nd ferment, i re-bottled sunday with a pinch of yeast.

Opened one four days later and minimal fizz. Almost flat but very small bubbles. Tastes good though. Probably way too soon but you know what it's like chaps, i just couldn't help myself! So i reckon if i wait it'll come good. Maybe another week? That champagne yeast is good though.

Second point: my other demijons i repitched and topped up last sunday - these have really slowed down. one is a bubble every two mins. I am not wasting any cider taking gravity readings cos it's only a gallon! Can i botlle it? And if so should i prime?

 

[hypnoticmonkey]

Don't even think about bottling if it's still fermenting at all. Even 1 bubble every two minutes is quite a bit.

Wait until it has stopped dead, then give it another week, then prime and bottle.

If you bottle an active fermentation you could end up with bottles that literally explode.