DIY Dog Dogma

[IainM]

I've got a friend who is a bit of a BrewDog fanboy, and is particularly fond of Dogma. It is a Scottish wee heavy fermented with a lager yeast, but isn't available to buy anymore. It is also one of his other half's favourites, and she is expecting a baby, so what better way to break nine months of abstinence than a clone of her discontinued favourite beer. As it happens, he moved house recently and has a cellar at a nice constant 13C, and wants to have a go at brewing, so I've got the ingredients from MaltMiller and I'll be heading over week after next. However, I haven't brewed anything like this before, so have a few questions you might be able to help me with.

20 Litres
7.5% ABV
OG-FG: 1080-1023

Pale Ale 3.5kg
Wheat 1kg
Flaked Oats 1kg
Munich 0.75kg
Caramalt 0.5kg
Crystal 0.38kg
Dark Crystal 0.5kg
Chocolate 0.25kg
Smoked 0.06kg
Amber 0.25kg
Brown 0.25kg
Heather Honey 125g

Saaz 75g
First Gold 10g

Wyeast 2007 - Pilsen Lager


I've subbed out the liquid yeast for three 11.5g packets of Saflager W-34/70, and swapped First Gold for East Kent Golding.

My questions are:
(1) Will this be enough yeast? Mr. Malty seems to think its about right, but the Brewer's Friend pitch rate calculator thinks that for a high gravity lager like this I'll need more than double. I don't really want to make a 6L starter or shell out for another four packs of yeast. Presumably I will have some leeway because I'm fermenting at the top of the lager yeast temperature range? Do you think I can get away with making a 2L starter from the three packets? How much underpitched can I go without compromising the quality of the beer?

(2) There is a massive amount of speciality grain here. I know this can create run-off problems when sparging, but I'll be doing BIAB. Can I just dunk'n'stir sparge instead? I've read that this could cause extract tannins and cause astringency, and while I've had no problems dunking and squeezing for other brews, I've never brewed with this much grain so it may be more problematic (8.44kg).

(3) Also related to using this much grain, I'm concerned that I won't be able to extract everything without either overshooting my final volume or not hitting OG. Normally I mash with just under the desired fermentor volume, then make up the difference and grain absorption with a dunk sparge. What sort of strike volume would you do for a brew like this? Note that if I add a 2L starter, plus another 2L of chilled/frozen water to cool the last few degrees, I might be pushing it.

Thanks in advance,
Iain

 

[Pope]

Out of morbid curiosity, when are you supposed to add the honey?

 

[IainM]

Out of morbid curiosity, when are you supposed to add the honey?

The recipe doesn't say, but I plan on adding it after the boil.

 

[MyQul]

The recipe doesn't say, but I plan on adding it after the boil.

I cant remember the thinking on this but honey MAY cotain wild yeast. I added it to the last 5 mins of the boil when I made a honey porter

 

[MyQul]

1. Being tight/poor if it was me,I'd brew a low hopped (so theres not much hop debris in the harvested yeast) low og pseudo lager at ale temps (lager yeast is quite happy to ferment at ale temps is just not as clean) just using 1 pack, perhaps some sort of light pseudo lager. Then harvest shed loads of trub/yeast to use in the true lager.

2. Dunk sparging is no problem I do it as standard but dont do more then one. I used to do two but I thought I may have been begining to extract tannins. The way around extracting as much sugars as poss is to split the mash in to (I'd say three as you've got so much grain) several mash bags if you have spare or just use 5G paint strainers like I do. Then on with the marigold and squeeze every last drop of wort out of the mash. It's much easier/you extract more wort doing small amount than the whole mash in one go. You'll get more trub in the FV as you'll be squeezing more small grain particles through the mash bag but this is off set by getting loads more wort into your FV

3. Dunno

 

[IainM]

1. Being tight/poor if it was me,I'd brew a low hopped (so theres not much hop debris in the harvested yeast) low og pseudo lager at ale temps (lager yeast is quite happy to ferment at ale temps is just not as clean) just using 1 pack, perhaps some sort of light pseudo lager. Then harvest shed loads of trub/yeast to use in the true lager.

2. Dunk sparging is no problem I do it as standard but dont do more then one. I used to do two but I thought I may have been begining to extract tannins. The way around extracting as much sugars as poss is to split the mash in to (I'd say three as you've got so much grain) several mash bags if you have spare or just use 5G paint strainers like I do. Then on with the marigold and squeeze every last drop of wort out of the mash. It's much easier/you extract more wort doing small amount than the whole mash in one go. You'll get more trub in the FV as you'll be squeezing more small grain particles through the mash bag but this is off set by getting loads more wort into your FV

3. Dunno

Doing a low-hopped one and reusing the trub was my first thought too, but I can only get the right temp for it in their cellar. I'm sure they wouldn't mind, but to be honest, I want to get this done asap to get it conditioning. I'm going to put a 2L starter on with the three yeast packets tonight, wait for it to ferment out at ale temp, then step up with another 2L a day or two before.

In case I miss the OG, I'll bring some DME with me just in case. I've got a Coopers European Lager hanging around, so if I don't need it I'll put it in there, and if I do need to use it in the Dogma, then I'll just extract the rest of the sugars in the mash with a second dunk sparge and use that for a partial mash with the kit, partigyle style.

 

[JonBrew]

@IainM I appreciate this is an old thread but wondering how this clone attempt turned out?... If you can remember that is :)

 

[IainM]

@IainM I appreciate this is an old thread but wondering how this clone attempt turned out?... If you can remember that is :)

It turned out really well. I didn't quite hit OG but topped up with some DME. The beer was really delicious and I've been thinking about doing a re-brew ever since.

 

[JonBrew]

It turned out really well. I didn't quite hit OG but topped up with some DME. The beer was really delicious and I've been thinking about doing a re-brew ever since.

Nice one. Glad to hear it worked out well for you. I'm planning this for my next brew but I think I might do a split batch and ferment half with a suitable Belgian strain for a bit of a twist.

One question. Did you find (again, if you can recall) the 60g of smoked malt added anything? It seems like a very small amount and I'm thinking of excluding it.

Cheers

 

[IainM]

Nice one. Glad to hear it worked out well for you. I'm planning this for my next brew but I think I might do a split batch and ferment half with a suitable Belgian strain for a bit of a twist.

One question. Did you find (again, if you can recall) the 60g of smoked malt added anything? It seems like a very small amount and I'm thinking of excluding it.

Cheers

Nothing obvious, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be missed if it wasn't included. Same for the honey.

 

[prog99]

What AA of saaz is it baed on? last I bought were 2.something%

 

[JonBrew]

Nothing obvious, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be missed if it wasn't included. Same for the honey.

Fair point. You've convinced me to keep it.