Disappointing efficiency

[moto748]

I keep a spreadsheet of my brews, and lately I have been disappointed to find that the general trend has been to BHE getting worse, not better. This, despite the fact that I believe I am much more careful and accurate about my work now than previously. So why is this? I considered various possibilities, including maybe the effect of some tannins from scorch marks on the base of the boiler inhibiting conversion? Well I had a good go at that, and I'm really not convinced that that is the answer.

But looking again tonight, I thought I could see a possible explanation. My brews go into a bucket, where I pitch the yeast, and then stay there for 5 days or so, until they are siphoned into demi-johns under fermentation locks. So I normally size my brews to either a '2 demi-john batch' (about 11 litres), or a '3 demi-john batch' (about 16 litres). Checking back, the BHE for the 2 demi-john batches were generally around the 65-70% mark (which I'm quite happy with), whereas most of the bigger brews were around 50-55%. Ah, I thought, I'm getting somewhere now!

But the question is, what to do about it? I could easily stick to the smaller batches. of course, Maybe it comes down to sparging, I don't know. I *could* just add 10% or so more base malt to the bigger batches, I suppose that is an option. Has anyone got any bright ideas?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

what kit or process do you use?
BIAB, sparge, no sparge, electric system?
I find the higher gravity I go for the worse BHE, so if trying to make strong old ale then a I aim for a smaller batch to keep efficiency up

So many variables without knowing your process.

 

[moto748]

BIAB, some sparge. I don't attempt high-gravity beers, and am fine with that.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Do you give the bag a good squeeze at the end when you pull it out? Likely the sugars are staying in the grain I suppose.

 

[stubrewworx]

My 15l, biab, no sparge, pull n squeeze bhe is around 55-60%, with a mash efficiency of 67-70%.

What mash efficiency are you getting.?

 

[The Baron]

Are you liquid collection measures accurate as in smaller batches it can make quite a difference, 1Ltr too much and it will bring the BHE down.
Have you changed your style of beers lately as ones with more say crystal etc may bring down the conversion
Just grasping at straws as I am sure you will have already looked at those points.
I used to get in the high 60s to 70 when I did BIAB but did the bag squeeze and rinse But I now use a Brew Machine and get 70 to 80 and 75 to 85 with a overnight mash. But I do not chase high BHE I would rather add more grain or add a little sugar at the end to compensate if I perchance do get a low one

 

[cushyno]

In larger batches efficiency can decrease if your mash is too dense and you don't have sufficient sparge water to flush out sugars. However with a 10-15L batch, if you are stirring periodically and squeeze the bag (BIAB) then you should get some consistency.

Another thought: have these batches all been from the same sack of crushed grain? Some settling in larger bags or sacks can result in inconsistent amounts of husk and flour being used. The finer flour can be poured out of bags before the husks, or vice versa. You'll get lower efficiency of there's a greater weight of husk in your mash.

Sometimes different suppliers crush differently, so changing suppliers or type of malt can affect consistency.

 

[moto748]

Thanks for the responses, guys, more or less in line with what I expected.

Conversion efficiency I don't know; I have only calculated BHE. I do do bag squeezing, and a little lautering too these days. I don't use much crystal. My figures don't seem too different from stubrewworx and the baron for the smaller batches..

I also considered the state of the grain itself, but I really don't think there is a problem there. I think the next batch I do, I'll make it a smaller one, and see if I can maintain the relatively high efficiencies on the small batches. And if I want to make a larger batch, perhaps just add some extra base grain. Once or twice lately I've had to add a small amount of sugar before pitching the yeast to get the FG up to the desired value. Even though it's only 200 g or so, I really resent having to do it; it feels like failure!

 

[ColinGee]

I'm doing all-grain in a custom-built all in one. I recently added a recirc pump and along with a less dense mash my BHE has definitely improved. Not sure how viable that is if you're BIAB but thought it might help.

 

[The Baron]

Thanks for the responses, guys, more or less in line with what I expected.

Conversion efficiency I don't know; I have only calculated BHE. I do do bag squeezing, and a little lautering too these days. I don't use much crystal. My figures don't seem too different from stubrewworx and the baron for the smaller batches..

I also considered the state of the grain itself, but I really don't think there is a problem there. I think the next batch I do, I'll make it a smaller one, and see if I can maintain the relatively high efficiencies on the small batches. And if I want to make a larger batch, perhaps just add some extra base grain. Once or twice lately I've had to add a small amount of sugar before pitching the yeast to get the FG up to the desired value. Even though it's only 200 g or so, I really resent having to do it; it feels like failure!

Its not a failure at all infact many of the older british beer recipe include sugar as the norm. I too now and again get a lower than expected BHE and just add a little sugar to get a reasonable SG. Its consistency that counts and the odd poor conversion is not a problem and to be expected

 

[AXW123]

I used toquite often add a little bit of sugar. I have to say however that since I moved from brew in the bag to the BrewMonk my efficiency has gone up considerably also I found my efficiency was better using crafty maltsters malts particular the Pops pale ale. My efficiency definitely went up several points - lovely flavour too. You can now order on their web site.

 

[Nicks90]

I do biab and usually hit 65-70% efficiency.
Nearly full volume 18l mashes and usually a 2-4l sparge using cold water from a jug over the grain bag in a colander .
Generally I get between 15-17l in to the FV after the boil and in my book that's an acceptable efficiency

 

[moto748]

I am reassured that I have little to worry about! In fact in my my earlier brewing days, I used to make bitter with a fair amount of sugar in it. But somehow sugar that's 'in the recipe' seems different from 'sugar you have to add cos you got a disappointing hydrometer reading'!

On balance, I am happy to accept low efficiency as long as the beer turns out good. That's all that really matters. I have a 50+ year old boiler, two plastic bins (one of which has lost its lid!), and half a dozen demi-johns, and that's it. One day, that boiler is going to die, but until then...

 

[The Baron]

I am reassured that I have little to worry about! In fact in my my earlier brewing days, I used to make bitter with a fair amount of sugar in it. But somehow sugar that's 'in the recipe' seems different from 'sugar you have to add cos you got a disappointing hydrometer reading'!

On balance, I am happy to accept low efficiency as long as the beer turns out good. That's all that really matters. I have a 50+ year old boiler, two plastic bins (one of which has lost its lid!), and half a dozen demi-johns, and that's it. One day, that boiler is going to die, but until then...

You do not need all the fancy equipment that is being hawked around in this hobby to make good beer, I am advocate for this.
In all hobbies there are people who think that the newest and most expensive equipment makes them into a expert.
There is no replacement for experience and craft knowledge and I am sure your brews are at the top end of good
Carry on Brewing 0r was that a film with Sid James

 

[moto748]

Heh, I don't know about the top end of good, baron, but I certainly derive pleasure from making beer with the most basic of equipment.

 

[Nicks90]

On balance, I am happy to accept low efficiency as long as the beer turns out good. That's all that really matters. I have a 50+ year old boiler, two plastic bins (one of which has lost its lid!), and half a dozen demi-johns, and that's it. One day, that boiler is going to die, but until then...

Nothing wrong with that kit.
I have a 60quid Chinese 25l tea urn, 2 plastic buckets that were second hand when I got them, 8 DJs that are probably older than me and a variety of airlocks that outdate jesus. One biab bag and a knackered old bra laundry bag for hops .
Done 75 all grain brews with this lot.
I really need to get a new hop and biab bag. Biab bag has lots of black stains all over it from when I accidentally left it for a week with spent grains in it (boil wash with bleach hasn't removed the stains) and the hop bags been stitched repaired about 10 times for small holes as well.

 

[moto748]

i know you are a kindred spirit, Nicks90!

As I've said before, I just use the old stockinette for grains and hops.You can buy a big roll of it for a few quid.

 

[chopps]

Sorry I’m in the wrong thread.
I saw the title and thought that it was my annual HR review.

 

[ColinGee]

I am reassured that I have little to worry about! In fact in my my earlier brewing days, I used to make bitter with a fair amount of sugar in it. But somehow sugar that's 'in the recipe' seems different from 'sugar you have to add cos you got a disappointing hydrometer reading'!

On balance, I am happy to accept low efficiency as long as the beer turns out good. That's all that really matters. I have a 50+ year old boiler, two plastic bins (one of which has lost its lid!), and half a dozen demi-johns, and that's it. One day, that boiler is going to die, but until then...

Creating my own setup has added fun and a bigger sense of achievement to my brewing odyssey. I bought an old Buffalo G30 last year and with a clean-up, some mods and additions it's now a very effective all-in-one. More on that here.

 

[moto748]

I had a thought about my efficiency today, as i started a new brew. I always 'dunk' the bag of grain regularly during the mashing process, but today I simultaneously gave it a good old prod with my trusty long melamine spoon. Do I usually do that? Not always, I think, But the grains did feel a little 'compacted;, and after a few good prods, clouds of milky-looking goodness appeared in the wort.

I'm sure that I'll making certain that I do do this always in future, anyway.