Details on using beer gas.

[bez]

Hi. Im thinking about getting some beer Gad for my corny keg.
Do I gas up the corny using CO2 first of all in the normal way.
Then swop to beer gas to dispense.
If so wouldn’t it just push the CO2 out leaving the n2 in the keg. Or does that go straight through the keg to the beer outlet straight away.help

 

[gyurmaember]

What do you trying to achieve with that?

 

[The Baron]

Just check that you do not need a different regulator for beer gas to co2, I am not sure but think Beer gas needs a higher rated regulator? but not sure.
The only difference is that the head maybe slightly creamier with beergas as it has nitrogen in it but I personally would just use co2.
Beergas will not maintain the co2 level in the beer as it is not pure co2 and nitrogen does not absorb in the beer as well me thinks

 

[bez]

What do you trying to achieve with that?

Not keen on fizzy stout.

 

[bez]

Just check that you do not need a different regulator for beer gas to co2, I am not sure but think Beer gas needs a higher rated regulator? but not sure.
The only difference is that the head maybe slightly creamier with beergas as it has nitrogen in it but I personally would just use co2.
Beergas will not maintain the co2 level in the beer as it is not pure co2 and nitrogen does not absorb in the beer as well me thinks

Yep. I know this. Thanks. I will need a different regulator.

 

[gyurmaember]

Not keen on fizzy stout.

I got it, I'd go for pure nitrogen for that. There was a topic not too long ago, where it's been discussed briefly, and the conclusion was, beer gas not worth on the homebrew level.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Hi. Im thinking about getting some beer Gad for my corny keg.
Do I gas up the corny using CO2 first of all in the normal way.
Then swop to beer gas to dispense.
If so wouldn’t it just push the CO2 out leaving the n2 in the keg. Or does that go straight through the keg to the beer outlet straight away.help

Dalton's gas law is your friend here, the total gas pressure of a mixed gas is the sum of the partial gas pressures . So if for example your gas regulator is set to 30psi, and if your gas is 70:30, then 70% of the pressure is applied by nitrogen and 30% is applied by CO2. So it's the equivalent of applying 9 psi CO2. It'll take along time to carbonate at that pressure . If you're in a hurry carbonate as normal with co2 , then connect to the beer gas with the beer gas regulator set to 30 psi. If you have more time ramp the mixed gas regulator up to 40 psi instead and wait a week, to a week and a half or so , and then drop the pressure back to serving pressure ~30psi . Or at least that's how I do it

 

[The Baron]

Thats true Sorcerers, even if you carb with co2 and then switch to beergas to serve eventually the co2 level will drop and the beer will be flatter than when you started but if its a low gas serving beer thats ok but you will notice the difference further down the keg with lets say a weiss/lager

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I use 30:70 for stout (imperial mostly) and it’s very different to pure CO2 - softer mouthfeel, more smooth, more velvety.

If you use mixed gas you will need another primary regulator because the fitting is different to a CO2 bottle.

When “carbonating” don’t carbonate with CO2 and then dispense using mixed gas. This is what you need to do if you have to push the beer along a very long beer line - you’re using the relative insolubility of nitrogen to push the beer at higher pressure without over-carbonating the beer.

Do “carbonate” using mixed gas but you need a much higher pressure, again because nitrogen is relatively insoluble. I like soft carbonation and still need 45-50 psi with mixed gas. It also takes longer, maybe a month before you get the full nitro effect (just a day or two to get more usual carbonation due to the CO2 in the mixed gas). Use the same pressure for dispense. You also need a stout spout, this provides a restriction at the tap to reduce pressure and provides turbulence to free the nitrogen and give a nice creamy head.

 

[bez]

Dalton's gas law is your friend here, the total gas pressure of a mixed gas is the sum of the partial gas pressures . So if for example your gas regulator is set to 30psi, and if your gas is 70:30, then 70% of the pressure is applied by nitrogen and 30% is applied by CO2. So it's the equivalent of applying 9 psi CO2. It'll take along time to carbonate at that pressure . If you're in a hurry carbonate as normal with co2 , then connect to the beer gas with the beer gas regulator set to 30 psi. If you have more time ramp the mixed gas regulator up to 40 psi instead and wait a week, to a week and a half or so , and then drop the pressure back to serving pressure ~30psi . Or at least that's how I do it

Thanks. So pressure up with CO2 first. It’s interesting to think why then if I add a beer gas cylinder the nitrogen will come through the system straight away. At the desired mix ratio.

 

[bez]

I use 30:70 for stout (imperial mostly) and it’s very different to pure CO2 - softer mouthfeel, more smooth, more velvety.

If you use mixed gas you will need another primary regulator because the fitting is different to a CO2 bottle.

When “carbonating” don’t carbonate with CO2 and then dispense using mixed gas. This is what you need to do if you have to push the beer along a very long beer line - you’re using the relative insolubility of nitrogen to push the beer at higher pressure without over-carbonating the beer.

Do “carbonate” using mixed gas but you need a much higher pressure, again because nitrogen is relatively insoluble. I like soft carbonation and still need 45-50 psi with mixed gas. It also takes longer, maybe a month before you get the full nitro effect (just a day or two to get more usual carbonation due to the CO2 in the mixed gas). Use the same pressure for dispense. You also need a stout spout, this provides a restriction at the tap to reduce pressure and provides turbulence to free the nitrogen and give a nice creamy head.

View attachment 79130

Thanks. I’ll have a go. Probably force carbonate at lowing pressure. Then use the beer gas. So a shorter line is needed.
The effect you describe and show in the pics is what I want. I also want to try with bitter.
Have you tried beer gas with a beer engine or is that Teo much.

 

[bez]

Thats true Sorcerers, even if you carb with co2 and then switch to beergas to serve eventually the co2 level will drop and the beer will be flatter than when you started but if its a low gas serving beer thats ok but you will notice the difference further down the keg with lets say a weiss/lager

So you’ve tried beer gas with other beer types apart from stout

 

[bez]

I got it, I'd go for pure nitrogen for that. There was a topic not too long ago, where it's been discussed briefly, and the conclusion was, beer gas not worth on the homebrew level.

Ok

 

[bez]

Dalton's gas law is your friend here, the total gas pressure of a mixed gas is the sum of the partial gas pressures . So if for example your gas regulator is set to 30psi, and if your gas is 70:30, then 70% of the pressure is applied by nitrogen and 30% is applied by CO2. So it's the equivalent of applying 9 psi CO2. It'll take along time to carbonate at that pressure . If you're in a hurry carbonate as normal with co2 , then connect to the beer gas with the beer gas regulator set to 30 psi. If you have more time ramp the mixed gas regulator up to 40 psi instead and wait a week, to a week and a half or so , and then drop the pressure back to serving pressure ~30psi . Or at least that's how I do it

I think you are correct in partial pressure but this is more to do with solubility. Cheers

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Thanks. I’ll have a go. Probably force carbonate at lowing pressure. Then use the beer gas. So a shorter line is needed.
The effect you describe and show in the pics is what I want. I also want to try with bitter.
Have you tried beer gas with a beer engine or is that Teo much.

Only carbonate with CO2 and dispense with mixed gas if you need to push the beer tens of metres along or up several meters to the tap.

If you do carbonate your beer with CO2 and then dispense with mixed gas and your line is shorter than about 5 metres then one of two things is likely to result; you will serve fully carbonated beer at a high pressure getting nothing but foam and a good soaking, or you will have to dispense at low pressure and there’s no chance that you’ll get nitrogen into your beer.

You need to carbonate/nitrogenate at high pressure using mixed gas and then dispense that at high pressure through a stout spout.

You can use mixed gas to get a smooth mouthfeel/flavour and dense creamy head on any malty beer but don’t use nitrogen on hoppy beers, it completely kills hoppy aroma and flavour.

You don’t use mixed gas on a hand pump because a hand pump pulls beer from the cask. I’m not entirely sure what would happen if you put a hand pump on a high pressure keg but I’d fear the worst for the hand pump, the room decoration, and possibly life & limb!

 

[The Baron]

So you’ve tried beer gas with other beer types apart from stout

Yes anditdoes give a nitro feel to your beer but eventually it loses its co2 carbonation which is good for stout but not so good lager and ipa etc

 

[Fezzer]

I force carbonate with 70/30 at 40 psi. I roll keg on floor for 2 minutes let sit for 1 hour with gas connected then disconnect and roll it again for 1 min 30. Then let sit for another hour and pour. It will get better after a couple of days tho if you can wait. I only use Co2 for ciders. Everything else I put on 70/30

 

[peebee]

My "Treatise" (signature below) gives a rundown on mixed gas if the last section. The "Treatise" is really about get cask conditioned style beer out of a keg, but the bit on mixed gas is relevant to "keg" stout (stout is best served as cask-conditioned which is why Guinness started using nitrogen to keep the CO2 pressure down - shhh, don't tell the keg-heads that or they get mad!).

@Sorcerers Apprentice is very correct, but didn't mention an important detail ... he's working in PSI whereas we are used to working in PSIG (whether we're aware of it or not). PSIG is "what the Guage tells you", but PSI "Absolute" doesn't include atmospheric pressure (14.7PSI) so the 9PSI CO2 pressure is -5.7PSIG! You obviously don't serve the beer with a partial vacuum, hence it's mixed with nitrogen. And as people have been saying, nitrogen does dissolve to make a "creamy head", but the temperature has to be tonsil-numbing cold (and the pressure ball-crunchingly high) to do that in any appreciable quantity.

 

[bez]

I force carbonate with 70/30 at 40 psi. I roll keg on floor for 2 minutes let sit for 1 hour with gas connected then disconnect and roll it again for 1 min 30. Then let sit for another hour and pour. It will get better after a couple of days tho if you can wait. I only use Co2 for ciders. Everything else I put on 70/30 View attachment 79180

Just thinking if you Gas up with normal CO2 and then use pure nitrogen it may be a cheaper way. There are also adapter so you don’t need two regulators. I think I will prob end using your idea over gassy CO2

 

[peebee]

... There are also adapter so you don’t need two regulators. ....

You are right! Many CO2 regulators can easily withstand the considerably higher pressures of N2 cylinders. But! Are you sure you can tell the difference between one that can and one that can't? Just remember, bits of unsuitable regulator fly about with quite a bit of velocity with 2000-3000 PSI behind them.

Don't forget all the babble about "partial pressure". Your stout carbonated with 100% CO2 may start off a bit more carbonated than you wish. As the N2 mixes with the CO2 in the keg. the carbonation will get less and less and will probably end up with less carbonation than desired.