Definitive noob liquid yeast thread!

[timcunnell]

Hello chaps

So as I have mentioned elsewhere I am going to use a liquid yeast for the first time on my next brew. I've ordered an ESB kit from HBC, and have gone for WLP002, which hopefully will work out well. I've searched through a few threads but haven't really found everything in one place that answers the basics of brewing with liquid yeasts, so I wanted to get the lowdown on what one needs to know when using liquid yeast for the first time.

So the questions I can think of (there may be others!?) are:

How do I make a yeast starter? How much "wort" to make, and from what?
If I am planning a brewday on a Saturday, what day should I make the starter?
How much yeast liquid should I add to my brewed wort?
Do I need to use a yeast nutrient or other additive?

Sorry if these are daft questions, or repeating other threads! I just thought it would be really helpful (for me at least! But hopefully for anyone else in the same boat) to get all this info in one thread.

Cheers!

 

[mirsultankhan]

Hello chaps

So as I have mentioned elsewhere I am going to use a liquid yeast for the first time on my next brew. I've ordered an ESB kit from HBC, and have gone for WLP002, which hopefully will work out well. I've searched through a few threads but haven't really found everything in one place that answers the basics of brewing with liquid yeasts, so I wanted to get the lowdown on what one needs to know when using liquid yeast for the first time.

So the questions I can think of (there may be others!?) are:

How do I make a yeast starter? How much "wort" to make, and from what?
If I am planning a brewday on a Saturday, what day should I make the starter?
How much yeast liquid should I add to my brewed wort?
Do I need to use a yeast nutrient or other additive?

Sorry if these are daft questions, or repeating other threads! I just thought it would be really helpful (for me at least! But hopefully for anyone else in the same boat) to get all this info in one thread.

Cheers!

Hi as far as I understand to make a starter you need the gravity of the wort to be around 1035-1040, this is to provide the yeast a stress free environment. A ratio of 10g of DME to 100ml litres of water achieves this.

I think the recommended period is 24-48 hrs. prior to pitching, so if you are brewing on Saturday, Make your starter on Thursday.

How much you make depends on your volume that you are brewing. If I am brewing 23 litres I generally make a starter of 700ml although I have heard that you can make one as small as 300ml.

I don't use any yeast nutrients.

For a 23 litre brew with SG of 1050 two days prior to brewday

1. Measure out 70g DME.
2. Boil 700ml water and add DME (its best to do it when its cold because steam makes DME sticky)
3. Stir and simmer for 10 minutes
4. Put lid on and cool the pot in the sink with cold water
5. Measure the temperature and make sure its within +/- 5 degrees of your yeast which should be at room temperature 20 Celsius or thereabouts. (make sure anything that touches the cooled DME is sanitised, thermometers etc)
6. Pour boiled and cooled DME into a sanitised container (glass jar etc)
7. Pitch your yeast into it
8. Cover the opening with something like kitchen foil and a towel (to keep it away from direct sunlight)
9. Gentle aerate it about twice a day
10. Pitch it into your beer after 48 hours

 

[timcunnell]

Hi as far as I understand to make a starter you need the gravity of the wort to be around 1035-1040, this is to provide the yeast a stress free environment. A ratio of 10g of DME to 100ml litres of water achieves this.

I think the recommended period is 24-48 hrs. prior to pitching, so if you are brewing on Saturday, Make your starter on Thursday.

How much you make depends on your volume that you are brewing. If I am brewing 23 litres I generally make a starter of 700ml although I have heard that you can make one as small as 300ml.

I don't use any yeast nutrients.

For a 23 litre brew with SG of 1050 two days prior to brewday

1. Measure out 70g DME.
2. Boil 700ml water and add DME (its best to do it when its cold because steam makes DME sticky)
3. Stir and simmer for 10 minutes
4. Put lid on and cool the pot in the sink with cold water
5. Measure the temperature and make sure its within +/- 5 degrees of your yeast which should be at room temperature 20 Celsius or thereabouts. (make sure anything that touches the cooled DME is sanitised, thermometers etc)
6. Pour boiled and cooled DME into a sanitised container (glass jar etc)
7. Pitch your yeast into it
8. Cover the opening with something like kitchen foil and a towel (to keep it away from direct sunlight)
9. Gentle aerate it about twice a day
10. Pitch it into your beer after 48 hours

Thanks very much for this! This really addresses everything I was unsure about (nearly!!).

The only bit I wondered was, at stage 10 of your guide above (which is really helpful!) should I be pouring away/discarding the wort and just pitching in the yeast? Or should I chuck in the whole lot?

Thanks again for your post!

 

[mirsultankhan]

Thanks very much for this! This really addresses everything I was unsure about (nearly!!).

The only bit I wondered was, at stage 10 of your guide above (which is really helpful!) should I be pouring away/discarding the wort and just pitching in the yeast? Or should I chuck in the whole lot?

Thanks again for your post!

You can do both as far as I am aware. Some people pour away the wort and just pitch the yeast others pitch the whole lot. Personally I have done both. Its just personal preference. Although i think MyQul who is more experienced than I stated that it should be about 5 percent of the overall volume or under. I would expect that if you have in excess of 20 litres pitching 700ml of wort is not going to make a vast difference to the finished beer.:hat:

Making a starter is really worth it, it will quickly start munching on all the goodness and you will get a full and sustained fermentation and a clean beer at the end of it

 

[TheRedDarren]

Yup, that covers pretty much everything, the same as how i do it too. The only thing I do differently is I use a 1/4 of a teaspoon of yeast nutrient, but it's not essential.

With regards to pitching the starter, if it's less than 5% of your batch size, bung it all in.

 

[timcunnell]

That's brilliant guys, thanks very much! I am really looking forward to trying a brew with liquid yeast and seeing what difference it might have.

Cheers!

 

[Covrich]

Yup the starter thing is pretty easy.

What you'll then start to think about is harvesting!

and if you're like me and thinking of saving money on starters, will start to think about eventually mashing a wort for starters (or pinching some out the kettle some people do and freeze it?)

I used English Ale III for these batches but next summer I am really looking forward to trying some proper Belgian Saison yeasts or wheat beer types, really try and get those funky flavours coming through.

 

[TheRedDarren]

Yea the Belgian yeasts are awesome, get the temperature in the low 20's and they go bonkers for activity and aroma.
Get a blow off tube ready ;-)

 

[timcunnell]

Just a quick thought on the subject of the vessel in which I create my yeast starter....

Because I didn't really have any suitable container I've just bought a 1.5 litre "Killner" glass jar, with the air tight lid. I am hoping this will be suitable. All I was wondering was, it is advisable/beneficial to make use of the air-tight lid and keep the thing totally sealed? Or would that be bad? I guess there needs to be some pressure escape?

 

[MyQul]

Just a quick thought on the subject of the vessel in which I create my yeast starter....

Because I didn't really have any suitable container I've just bought a 1.5 litre "Killner" glass jar, with the air tight lid. I am hoping this will be suitable. All I was wondering was, it is advisable/beneficial to make use of the air-tight lid and keep the thing totally sealed? Or would that be bad? I guess there needs to be some pressure escape?

Not a good idea to use an airtight vessal when making a starter. The yeast gives of C02 which could potentially blow the jar up. Just leave the lid on loose enough so the C02 can escape but not loose enough that it falls off

 

[baggybill]

Some great advice and tips there! Only thing I would add is that if you want two (or many more!) for the price of one yeast vial...

• Make the starter earlier and make 1 litre.
• When fermented out, decant most of the spent wort and swirl a bit to get all the yeast back into solution.
• Save half to a fully sanitised 500ml PET bottle or jar and store in the fridge for your next brew (repeating process).
• Make the yeast that's left back up to a 1 litre starter for current brew!

If it gets a bit old, few months, reduce the concentrate of the starter wort. Some info I gathered from web:

"For a 1.040 starter, you would use 100g of DME per litre. To do a starter with half the gravity (1.020), you would just reduce the DME by half, so you would only use 50g of DME. Doing the low gravity starter first just puts less stress on what little yeast are still viable and kind of wakes them up out of hibernation and it starts to promote growth."

:

 

[HebridesRob]

I had a look around the White Labs website. Just out of interest...
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/guidelines-white-labs-pitchable-yeast-cultures

Making a Yeast Starter – Technique for the Homebrew

Make up a 1-2 pint wort, gravity ~1.040, hopped as normal. Boil for 30 minutes, cool to room temperature. Pitch one vial, shake well and let sit for 1-2 days. Little to no activity will be seen in the starter, since this is a very small volume compared to the quantity of yeast pitched. The yeast in a starter may be done within a couple of hours. But a layer of yeast should be at the bottom after 1-2 days. The wort on top of the yeast can be either decanted of the top, or left in and pitched with the whole volume. Most pitch the whole volume, but if the starter gets to the point of 2 liters for 5 gallons, then we recommend decanting the wort off the yeast.
Typical Starter Volumes for 5 gallons: To activate the yeast: 1 pint To regenerate expired yeast (there will be living yeast in the package for ~1 year): 2 pints To brew a high gravity beer: 2 pints To brew a lager beer, starting fermentation 50-55F: 4 pints

Think I'd have to read that a few times before I tried it.

 

[mirsultankhan]

Not a good idea to use an airtight vessal when making a starter. The yeast gives of C02 which could potentially blow the jar up. Just leave the lid on loose enough so the C02 can escape but not loose enough that it falls off

yes I actually just put a disposable paper kitchen towel over the top of my jar and keep it tight with a rubber band, I don't know why but I like my yeast to be able to 'breathe' because as the stir bar aerates the wort it seemed to me that it would need to get oxygen from outside and a paper kitchen towel seemed to offer the best solution of letting the starter 'breathe' but keeping out potential baddies.

 

[MyQul]

yes I actually just put a disposable paper kitchen towel over the top of my jar and keep it tight with a rubber band, I don't know why but I like my yeast to be able to 'breathe' because as the stir bar aerates the wort it seemed to me that it would need to get oxygen from outside and a paper kitchen towel seemed to offer the best solution of letting the starter 'breathe' but keeping out potential baddies.

If you look at the youtube vids most people seem to just put foil over the jar/flask when it's sitting on the stir plate.

 

[mirsultankhan]

If you look at the youtube vids most people seem to just put foil over the jar/flask when it's sitting on the stir plate.

sure its an option, i just like the idea of my yeast 'breathing', of air being able to pass through with little risk of infection from some airborne baddie. My stir plate creates a constant vortex with the surface of the water being in a constant state of flux bringing all that oxygen from the air into the starter.

 

[HisDudeness]

Just a point on the pouring off wort question, I would say if it's fully fermented out and the wort is clear then it doesn't matter too much if you pour it off or not. If however you only ferment the starter for a matter of days/hours and the wort is still cloudy and active I would pitch the whole lot or you may end up pouring your most active and healthy yeast away. This is especially important for less flocculant strains

 

[timcunnell]

Just a point on the pouring off wort question, I would say if it's fully fermented out and the wort is clear then it doesn't matter too much if you pour it off or not. If however you only ferment the starter for a matter of days/hours and the wort is still cloudy and active I would pitch the whole lot or you may end up pouring your most active and healthy yeast away. This is especially important for less flocculant strains

Thanks for this - that is a good point. To be honest I had been wondering why common advice seems to have been to pitch the whole lot in, where my logic (and a couple of videos I've watched on YouTube) suggest that pouring off the spent wort is the way to go, as it won't help the flavour of your beer.

But yeast floculation, and whether or not the best cells are suspended must make quite a difference. I will see how my starter wort is looking after 48 hours and may or may not pitch the whole lot depending on whether its cloudy.

The dude abides :)

 

[mirsultankhan]

Some people like to put it in the fridge for a few hours or even overnight to get the yeast out of suspension and then let it come to room temperature prior to pitching.

 

[BeerCat]

Some great advice and tips there! Only thing I would add is that if you want two (or many more!) for the price of one yeast vial...

• Make the starter earlier and make 1 litre.
• When fermented out, decant most of the spent wort and swirl a bit to get all the yeast back into solution.
• Save half to a fully sanitised 500ml PET bottle or jar and store in the fridge for your next brew (repeating process).
• Make the yeast that's left back up to a 1 litre starter for current brew!

If it gets a bit old, few months, reduce the concentrate of the starter wort. Some info I gathered from web:

"For a 1.040 starter, you would use 100g of DME per litre. To do a starter with half the gravity (1.020), you would just reduce the DME by half, so you would only use 50g of DME. Doing the low gravity starter first just puts less stress on what little yeast are still viable and kind of wakes them up out of hibernation and it starts to promote growth."

:

Would this apply to dried and harvested yeast from the FV as well?

 

[MyQul]

Would this apply to dried and harvested yeast from the FV as well?

Dried yeast is a different case. You can do this with harvested yeast (I do it) but depending on how much trub you get in the bottom of the FV you may need to rinse the yeast out of the trub