Damson and plum wine

[Crastney]

so I've followed CJJ Berry for plums, and damsons, and have made them in one FV, to make plum and damson - 6lb plums, 4lb damsons, and I'm going to add sugar (about 7lb?) - to make this into two DJs - does that sound about right?
I'll use a burgundy yeast.
I was also thinking of adding some blackberries that I have in the freezer at the moment.

any suggestions? or advice?

Thanks in advance

(it's currently in the cool down from having the boiling water put on top of the fruit)

I've worked out that there's currently just under 1 lb of sugar in the fruit in 2 gal of water. If I add another 7lb, that'll give 4lb per gal - is that an ok figure to work with?

I'm guessing here that the burgundy yeast will be good for quite a high alcohol value.

 

[Crastney]

update on this, and advice needed...

I ended up adding a whole 5kg bag of sugar, and the liquid ended up in about 3.3 gal.

the third was added to apple juice to make plum and damson cider, which has just been bottled, but is quite tart.

the other three bottles stopped fermenting - probably because it was too cold, at about 1.070, and 1.038.

I tried to make a started with some high alcohol yeast, and thought that with a brew belt on, there was fermentation but it only went down 2pts to 1.068!

I've started another lot of yeast, but I think it's had alcohol shock, as the half milk bottle of stuff is doing nothing now - I added a good 2 tsp of nutrient, a tsp of citric acid, and some more sugar.

just talking in chat, and it was recomended to start another starter, but to add the current wine, diluted slightly, to avoid too high an abv. and do the double up thing like in the thread that Moley suggested, and to make sure that fermentation really is going well before adding anything.

just looking for reasurance that that's the right thing to do.

 

[oldbloke]

Well I'm no expert but that's an awful lot of sugar. 11lbs plus what was in the fruit, and the juice. That's enough for at least 4gallons of dry wine.
It's quite possible the yeast has hit its alcohol limit and you've got a sweet wine. If you dilute it so the ABV drops, you might get some yeast going to eat the remaining sugar. What's it taste like?

 

[Crastney]

i did think that the yeast had hit it's alcohol limit. Someone (probably Moley) suggested that the initial SG reading should have been about 1.100, and that the yeast would be ok. It tastes very strong, and still very sweet, almost like a dessert wine, definitely one for sipping not sessioning. A very nice damson/plum flavour to it, that I think will only get better with time (once bottled!).

Is there a reliable test for ABV of a given liquid if you don't have gravity values?

It was initially intended to be 2 gallons, but the amount of juice meant that I thought it would end up being 4, which is why I added so much sugar, and then when I sieved from the FV to the DJs it only made 3.33 gal, so the initial sugar to volume would have been very high.

the difference in values from DJ1 and 2 and DJ3 is because the first two had very little sediment/yeast, and the third one had quite a lot pulled through, which meant that the third one fermented more vigorously, further, and longer, reaching 1038, whilst the other two only got to 1070, which was one reason why I thought that maybe it hadn't hit the alcohol limit, if the third one went down to 1038 then the othe two should get at least that far.

I've now got a starter of champagne yeast going (it was all I had left) - which started well on Sunday, as we were at home, with the heating on, but now I'm at work, the heating won't be on, and the temp (even though it's by the radiator) might go low enough for the starter to stop... (how low is acceptable? - it shouldn't get below about 14 in there).

 

[oldbloke]

Is there a reliable test for ABV of a given liquid if you don't have gravity values?

There's the vinometer, cheap but only really accurate for water/alcohol mixes. The other chemicals in wine mess it up a little, and if it's not a dry wine the sugar messes it up a lot.

There's the refractometer (refractive index of the liquid changes according to alcohol content). You're talking a few hundred quid, at least.

There's the ebullioscope (alcohol % affects boiling point). Also not cheap. A local microbrewery /might/ have one, all distilleries do, but they might not be up for letting you use it. If you have a really good thermometer, you might try measuring the boiling temperature yourself. Sensitive to changes in air pressure and you want the whole liquid evenly heated. Not simple.

 

[Crastney]

ok, so my starter is actually going now (or at least it was this morning when I left for work)

here's another question: I added CT and Pot Sorb to one DJ (the one that had fermented furthest), as at the time I thought it was a good idea, and I was going to stop it, and bottle it, but was persuaded not to. Will that affect this yeast starter when I add some of it to the mix? will any pot sorb still be present?

 

[Crastney]

All three DJs fermenting - one a lot more vigorously than the other two, but all three producing bubbles, so I'm happy for the time being.

 

[user 1290]

Is there a reliable test for ABV of a given liquid if you don't have gravity values?

You can get samples sent off and tested for a fee, but I use this method for checking approx ABV of wines, and using my refractometer and narrow gauge hydrometer and have found it reasonably accurate (within 1%ABV) to compare with theoretical OSG/FG alcohol estimations, so should work well in estimating final ABV without any previous info.

http://www.makewine.com/winemaking/methods/alcohol/

 

[Crastney]

Further update:
There are several threads that I've mentioned about my plum damson wine, this one was most recently posted in so I'll update in here.

a couple of weekends ago I moved the three DJs into the utility room, onto a shelf so that I could rack them. I didn't have time till this morning.
I racked each into new DJ adding 1CT + 1/2 tsp pot sorb (wine stabiliser), then shook vigorously a few times to release gas.
I also took specific gravity readings - they were 1.050, 1.050 and 1.044
Still lots of sugars in there, but obviously they've reached the alcohol limit (if you don't believe me, please read my other threads on the process I followed, and how long it's taken!)

I noticed that the colour of the wine has changed to be a lot browner, and I'm guessing that this is due to light exposure?
the flavour is a lot more like a port, or muddy and slightly bitter. I'm not sure I like it, but it's better than the over sweet taste that it had last time I tried it. and it's definitely very alcoholic! a few sips from the trial jars while testing SG, and I certainly felt different on the commute to work!

I'm hoping that this is going to be ok. I will bottle as soon as, because I need some for a party at the weekend!

any advice? do I need to let it clear? or filter it? are those obligatory, or just recomendations to make it nicer?

 

[oldbloke]

Like port, or like sherry?
May be oxidised. My first attempt at parsnip did that, pretty sure it was oxidised. Not keen on it myself, but other people tell me it's drinkable.
Not sure there's much you can do about it, but if there is I'd love to know. Anybody?

 

[Crastney]

aah yes, sherry, that's more like the flavour - I thought the brown colour also indicated oxidation.

I will have 18 bottles of it - will it be a drink now? a keeper? or a don't drink it until I'm really desperate?

 

[oldbloke]

Hard to say. I have one bottle of my oxiparsnip left. The last one we had was drinkable but I can't say I really enjoyed it. T'missus didn't mind it so much, and her mother will neck anything anyway. That had had a while to age and hadn't noticably improved, or got worse. Unless you actively dislike it you may as well keep it.

CJJB reckons you can add it to a vigorously fermenting wine and that will sort it out. Worth the bother of trying? dunno.

 

[Moley]

I'm hoping that this is going to be ok. I will bottle as soon as, because I need some for a party at the weekend!

any advice? do I need to let it clear? or filter it? are those obligatory, or just recomendations to make it nicer?

A party?

For people you like, or never want to see again?

DON'T DO IT! :nono:

That isn't wine, it's sugar syrup.

If it isn't completely clear then we shouldn't even be having this discussion, clarity is not optional.

IF it ever clears then you could keep it as a blender, one bottle of this to a gallon of something very dry indeed.

Face it, your damson & plum has gone pear shaped, throw it down the sink and move on.

 

[Crastney]

Moley will tear his hair out at this, but I bottled one DJ this morning.

actually the one that had the lowest sg, and the least oxidised (based on colour).
yes it has cleared, a while ago. it didn't taste too bad.

the problem that I would have with blending it is that I have (or will have) 18 bottles, so I'll have to wait till I've made 18 DJs of very dry wine that actually needs treatment.

as I consider it drinkable (at the moment, though this might change), I will bottle what I have and keep in storage and use as and when the situation requires. I'm incredibly reluctant to throw it out - even if I end up letting air in, and turning it into 18 bottles of plum damson wine vinegar, and give to friends, or something, I do not intend for this to end up down the drain.
(paint stripper, even, is preferable to drain cleaner!... unless of course my drains need cleaning, in which case maybe one bottle might go that way)

 

[Crastney]

all of the people who tried my wine at the party were very impressed, and liked it.
they all agreed that yes it was quite sweet, but perfectly drinkable.
I found that the cider I'd taken with me was particularly dry, and by adding about 1/5th of a glass of wine to 4/5th cider made a very pleasent drink.

I did however have a stonking hangover on Sunday, and threw up a couple of times on the drive back, and when I got in at 2pm I had a roast dinner waiting for me, which I somehow managed to force down, and then sat watching the tennis (listening to it with my eyes closed :whistle: ). swmbo said that I looked very 'grey'.

I'm fairly sure that the remaining two DJs will be put in the back of the cupboard, and left to use as a sweet blend in something very dry.