Cwtch - to fine or not to fine....

[Pavalijo]

.....that is the question.
After a few very slow fermentations I had high hopes for this kit which came with two sachets of yeast and with instructions suggesting a rapid fermentation and then bottle carbonation in only 2 days! I have thought previously from reading various threads that many kits just don’t include enough yeast to ensure a reliable fermentation within the suggested timescales.
Anyway - the Cwtch has performed as expected - pitched the yeast on 23 Jan, got from 1.045 to 1.012 by day 4 and 1.011 on day 7 when I dry hopped, a couple of days later than the instructions recommended - but I’ve been caught out dry hopping too early before. Airlock activity ceased altogether on day 8 (and based on advertised 4.6% my target gravity was 1.010).
Anyway, enough of that - to “the question”. I have read threads likening it at this stage to tomato soup, and I can see why. It has been described as very cloudy when bottled, and with 120g of hop pellets that is not surprising. On Thursday (day 12, and day 5 of dry hop time) I am going to rack into a bottling bin (purged with CO2) by gravity and through a fine mesh net to remove as much hop debris as I can. The bin will then sit in my cold (unheated but insulated) shed for a couple of days before bottling at the weekend. But should I add finings when racking into the bin? I have had clear beer with and without finings but thought the Cwtch might need it. What would you do?
I will have a mouthful when bottling to check it for twang, but after carbonation time it’s going to be locked away for at least 3 months and then drunk over another 6 months given the great reviews for aged Cwtch!

And the next batch going in the fermenter is the Festival Golden Stagg........

 

[Drunkula]

Me - I'd absolutely gelatine it because I see absolutely reason not to. All the experiments done on it seem that people can't tell a difference despite the litany of it stripping out flavour.

When you strain through this mesh is that going to be submerged so you avoid oxidation or something?

 

[Didge]

I used some Starbrite finings on my Cwtch and cold crashed, it still came out looking like muddy pond water a month later.

Unfortunately mine also tasted of muddy pond water, so much so, I poured the lot down the toilet.
I usually use 100g of hops per brew, but my Cwtch tasted like there was 2kg of hops in it.

Hopefully yours will come out better.

 

[aamcle]

Cold crash it for a few days then use finnings.

 

[Pavalijo]

Thanks for the replies - it does smell great and having read that the kit is very close to the bought tin I tasted I’m looking forward to it.

So aamcle suggests to cold crash for a few days before adding finings - hadn’t thought of that but it sounds logical. How long do finings generally take to work?

Drunkula - the rackingwill be done by gravity with a pipe running from the sample valve on the SS Chronically fermenter. I put the pipe in the sanitised bag and sit it in the bottom of the bottling bucket which I then fill very slowly with CO2. Then when I open the valve the bag does get submerged. Hopefully the CO2 still fills the top of the bucket when filling is finished and as I carefully and slowly remove the pipe and bag so as not to make any splashes - just the odd drip as I quickly take it out of the bucket after it exits the fluid.

Then I will put the bucket lid on firmly, solid bung in the hole (so as not to draw air in as I lift it) and take it to a worktop in the shed. The bucket has a tap and bottling will be using a bottling wand so all transfers are by gravity - having chucked a nearly new auto syphon that just sucked air in!

So add finings a few days later and wait ( how long? ) before bottling. Then hope it doesn’t turn out like Didge’s!

 

[trummy]

First batch I made thick in the bottle, but it did clear and was deemed very popular even though I did not read the instructions and banged in all of the hops at the beginning. Followed the instructions this time, but put all the hops in muslin bags. Its outside cold crashing at the moment. Hoping to bottle today or tomorrow. Be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

[Pavalijo]

Drunkula - here are photos from today’s racking exercise.

I sanitized everything and then filled the bottling bucket with CO2. After that all movements very slow and calm so as to keep as much CO2 in the bucket as possible.
Tube attached to draw off valve on the chronical. I then tied a hop sack from a Festival kit to the end of the tube (not pulling it up the tube fully to avoid hop congestion blocking the tube). Then a Sainsburys vegetable bag (never used for veg!) over that, drawstring tied to bucket handle.
Valve opened and the Cwtch emptied very calmly (no splashing). I rotated the racking arm to the top of what turned out to be a litre of dense hop debris.
I have taken the bottling bucket with its murky tomato soup out to the shed and will leave it a couple of days before fining.
One photo shows the content of the inner and outer bags - not much point in the outer one unless the inner bag drops off the tube maybe.

 

[Poochops]

I’ve got a Cwtch in the bottling bucket ready to bottle Saturday, I've done it many many times and it’s never muddy, that’s just down to poor technique.
Tbh you’ve done exactly as I do, strained to the bucket through a mesh sock tied to the end of the tube, I think I got the little sock in a festival kit years ago. Give it a week in the cold shed and then bottle it, you won’t need finings. Bottle it next weekend not this, you’ll have the thinnest film of sediment in your bottles once its ready.

 

[trummy]

Unfortunately the muslin bag I put the first lot of hops in the mesh hole size was too large, all hops escaped. The second load of hops I put in several Festival bags and they were fine enough to retain the hops, so thick again in the bottle after 3 days cold crashing. I did a Festival Summer Glory at the same time and put the elderflowers and hops in several Festival bags, weighed down with the inclusion of a few marbles and that is nearly clear on bottling. If I do Cwtch again then its Festival bags only.
I use a bag over the syphon tube too.

 

[Pavalijo]

I did a Festival Summer Glory at the same time and put the elderflowers and hops in several Festival bags, weighed down with the inclusion of a few marbles and that is nearly clear on bottling. If I do Cwtch again then its Festival bags only.
I use a bag over the syphon tube too.

I have just dry hopped in a bag once - 50g of hop pellets in one of the Sainsburys veg bags. It contained the hops very well, but I was surprised how they formed a dense mass inside the bag and I don't think they would have released as much aroma as by scattering them and letting them gradually sink to the bottom - so I haven't done that since.

 

[Pavalijo]

So after 10 days in the (insulated but unheated) shed I bottled the Cwtch - it appeared to have cleared quite well (from the amount of sediment I could see on the bottom of the bottling bucket) so I didn’t bother fining and the result is below. We had sub zero night and zero daytime temperatures for several days so maybe this is better than in less cold conditions ....

The instructions say to carbonate for 2 days before moving somewhere cool. Given the clarity (therefore less yeast in suspension than expected?) I am going to give it 2 weeks as normal.

 

[Didge]

I would've been very happy with results like that, hopefully it tastes better than mine too.

I've done hundreds of brews over the years and so far I have only discarded two, Cwtch being one of these.
It tasted so bad I'm tempted to believe it may have been a manufacturing issue, so I might give it another go one day.

 

[Pavalijo]

I would've been very happy with results like that, hopefully it tastes better than mine too.

I did taste the dregs: really murky, but tasted absolutely superb! At this stage the best tasting of the 8 or so kits I’ve now done.
Give it another go!
The only one I have ditched was the first one that I started in the heat wave last year and the temperatures were all over the place.
I can now keep a brew within a degree of 21.0C by opening and closing the door into the bathroom where I ferment at different times of the day - but ours is a modern house with great insulation so much reduced temperature fluctuation in here.