Cummings testimony

[Pavros]

Gove seems to have been completely absent from proceedings.

I get the feeling that Gove is keeping his head down so that he can be revealed as the new 'squeaky clean face of the Tories who had nothing to do with any decisions made during the pandemic'.

There are rumours that Cummings leaked the cost of Johnson's flat refurbishments with Gove's backing as the start of Gove's bid to become party leader.

 

[TonyT]

The biggest problem is there is no yardstick to say the socialists could have performed better. Tories will get in with another landslide because the populace knows that the roll out of vaccine was second to none in Europe. And the Labour party can't makeup its mind whether to be left or right of centre.

It’s not a problem at all. They haven’t been in power for 11 years so what they may or may not have done differently is completely irrelevant. This is about the shambles that HAS happened and who’s responsible for it. The vaccine rollout has been a success but for all the Tory apologists, that’s a life raft in a sea of monumental fur cups,

 

[foxy]

It’s not a problem at all. They haven’t been in power for 11 years so what they may or may not have done differently is completely irrelevant. This is about the shambles that HAS happened and who’s responsible for it. The vaccine rollout has been a success but for all the Tory apologists, that’s a life raft in a sea of monumental fur cups,

So you can prove a socialist government could have done better? Get a grip!

 

[TonyT]

So you can prove a socialist government could have done better? Get a grip!

That’s not what I said. Stop making stuff up.

 

[TonyT]

So you can prove a socialist government could have done better? Get a grip!

That’s not what I said. Stop making stuff up.

 

[foxy]

That’s not what I said. Stop making stuff up.

I don't make stuff up it's those who believe the socialists could have done a better job are living in a different world, but that is normal for them. Foe some reason reality eludes them.

 

[Brianbrewed]

Cummings seems to be gunning for Johnson.
As for how Labour would have dealt with COVID?
Non-sensical argument. May as well argue what Pitt the younger or Gladstone would have done.
The current government should be held to account for any lapses of judgement

 

[clib]

Cummings seems to be gunning for Johnson.
As for how Labour would have dealt with COVID?
Non-sensical argument. May as well argue what Pitt the younger or Gladstone would have done.
The current government should be held to account for any lapses of judgement

Spot on.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

One of the big reasons for Brexit was supposed to be that our leaders should be accountable to British voters so we can kick them out if they mess up.

Whether you believe that or not depends on whether you believe everything the Leave campaign told you or not. I can't see someone like Johnson, Gove, Rees Mogg or the rest of them on the government side of the House wanting to give more power to the electorate.

 

[TonyT]

I don't make stuff up it's those who believe the socialists could have done a better job are living in a different world, but that is normal for them. Foe some reason reality eludes them.

You accused me of claiming that I could prove that a socialist government would have made a better job of it. I made no such claim. Ergo, you made stuff up.

 

[Braufather]

I get the feeling that Gove is keeping his head down so that he can be revealed as the new 'squeaky clean face of the Tories who had nothing to do with any decisions made during the pandemic'.

There are rumours that Cummings leaked the cost of Johnson's flat refurbishments with Gove's backing as the start of Gove's bid to become party leader.

does anyone know what Mrs Gove's interior design leanings are? would hate them to have to redecorate again.

The times are going heavy against Boris, and Gove is well in with Murdoch so don't doubt it.

 

[foxy]

You accused me of claiming that I could prove that a socialist government would have made a better job of it. I made no such claim. Ergo, you made stuff up.

Never said you were claiming that the socialists could do a better job just asking if you could prove it. Which you can't. As I said in an earlier post there isn't a yard stick to measure against. Only the ill at ease would run with the ball tossed by a person who has an axe to grind.

 

[TonyT]

Never said you were claiming that the socialists could do a better job just asking if you could prove it. Which you can't. As I said in an earlier post there isn't a yard stick to measure against. Only the ill at ease would run with the ball tossed by a person who has an axe to grind.

You said “so you can prove a socialist government could have done better”. That is a statement, not a question and it isn’t something that I claimed. If all you can do is misquote people it’s pointless having a conversation.

 

[Random Badger]

does anyone know what Mrs Gove's interior design leanings are? would hate them to have to redecorate again.

Probably quite traditional - dank stone walls, manacles, stocks, iron maiden etc.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

You don't need to invoke alternate realities to say whether Johnson has done a good job or not. This kind of thing isn't really a matter for left or right, it's about the character of the people involved. It can't be good when the PM is more worried about the media coverage of his mistress' dog than a coming pandemic, when people are discouraging him from attending COBRA meetings because he will just get in the way of a response, and he doesn't want to go to them anyway because he wants to write a book to help pay for his divorce.

That's not leadership.

But if you want to look at alternate realities, look at South Korea or Taiwan to see what's possible. Singapore didn't have a pandemic plan, but they just took the UK pandemic plan and implemented it - they're baffled how we did so badly.

As is this guy, who has rather more experience of the developing world than an oversexed journalist, and was saying this on 12 March 2020, two weeks before lockdown 1 started :

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Who are these socialists the UK has not had a socialist government since Atlee 70 years ago. The hard right think anyone who doesn’t hold their views is a socialist.

 

[Covrich]

We could really do with something a lot better than either the Conservative or Labour party. Which would probably only come about by changing the system, I suspect.

Totally agree, But the game feels rigged. I understand chippys frustration.

I would never vote for tory butwhere I currently live is a labour stronghold, good if I want to vote them but other than that my vote gets drown out by a rigged seat.

Easy for people to say well it wont change until people start to vote, but until the game changes I dont think people will actually do it.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Totally agree, But the game feels rigged. I understand chippys frustration.

I forgot to add to my little rant this morning we still have the LA12 postcode to remind us of the county's move and the Thatcher years.

 

[Random Badger]

Totally agree, But the game feels rigged. I understand chippys frustration.

I would never vote for tory butwhere I currently live is a labour stronghold, good if I want to vote them but other than that my vote gets drown out by a rigged seat.

Easy for people to say well it wont change until people start to vote, but until the game changes I dont think people will actually do it.

Our first past the post elections are not fit for purpose and perpetuate an adversarial two party system where coalition and cooperation is discouraged and many people find their vote is wasted. If they bother to vote all they can do is pick the "least worst" candidate from the biggest parties in their constituency rather than the person and party that they actually want. There is often a massive discrepancy between the number of votes and the all important number of parliamentary seats. A party can end up with an overwhelming majority in the house whilst only receiving forty percent of the votes, whereas a party receiving more than ten percent of the votes can end up with next to nothing. Just look at the results from the last 3 general elections:

2019	Votes	Seats
Conservative	43.6%	56.2%
Labour	32.2%	31.1%
Liberal Democrat	11.6%	1.7%
Scottish National	3.9%	7.4%
2017	Votes	Seats
Conservative	42.4%	48.8%
Labour	40.0%	40.3%
Liberal Democrat	7.4%	1.8%
Scottish National	3.0%	5.4%
2015	Votes	Seats
Conservative	36.8%	50.8%
Labour	30.4%	35.7%
UK Independence	12.6%	0.2%
Liberal Democrat	7.9%	1.2%
Scottish National	4.7%	8.6%

 

[cheeseyfeet]

Remember that the government did not roll out the vaccine, the NHS did.