Covid the *** and the final stage.

[Shirley Bassett]

Last night I spoke to my Uncle (78) and Aunt (76). They said that 3 weeks ago they had been rang, out of the blue, by the local GP surgery, and offered Covid vaccination. They went to the surgery and got jabbed up,

At the surgery they said that they hadn’t realised that they were currently jabbing up over 75’s. They were told that the local care home had had several staff and residents that had refused the vaccine and so rather than waste the vaccine it was offered to the wider community.

Happy Days!

 

[marshbrewer]

Good stuff. I know from a friend who works in a dementia unit at a care home that if a resident refuses the ***, even if they aren't really in a fit state to make a rational decision, they have to respect it. Which is fair enough, otherwise you would be opening a massive can of worms, and the middle of a pandemic probably isn't the time to do that, but it explains the spare doses perhaps.

Not too sure why a member of staff would refuse the ***, but again, their choice.

I'm selfishly hoping I get the option of getting a 'spare' ***, as being 49, i'll miss out by one year from the 9 vulnerable cohorts, and it does look like once we have done the vulnerable we might be dishing out doses to other countries, which is slightly inconvenient as I might have my honeymoon later this year and my Mrs (38) has had hers due to being a care worker ~ so she might be going on her honeymoon alone at this rate!

The problem is I've no idea who / where / how the spare jabs are dished out so I haven't really got any hope of getting one, and if you think about it, its not really that bad; there are people in greater need.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Not too sure why a member of staff would refuse the ***, but again, their choice.

If its anything like the home SWMBO works in the younger staff have all been scared off by the fake news that has been put on social media by the same morons that believe there's a chip in the vaccine and its designed to kill us as the world is over populated etc.

 

[Justin Dean]

I am not convinced the vaccine is a panacea, I will get it but the variants will go on for years I reckon so this is the new world. We need to get used to it and come up with a better way to accommodate it. I really hope I a wrong, time to put put my crystal ball away and wait see

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I am not convinced the vaccine is a panacea, I will get it but the variants will go on for years I reckon so this is the new world. We need to get used to it and come up with a better way to accommodate it. I really hope I a wrong, time to put put my crystal ball away and wait see

I have a bad feeling that you're probably right.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Not too sure why a member of staff would refuse the ***, but again, their choice.

Quite - there will be a handful who might have medical conditions that might be a problem, but otherwise that's near criminal if that's your chosen career. But it's to be expected - only about 70% of people entitled to free flu jabs take them so even for SARS2 you can expect a significant refusal rate even without the daft stories going round social media. Still, it means the rest of us get them quicker....

I'm selfishly hoping I get the option of getting a 'spare' ***, as being 49, i'll miss out by one year from the 9 vulnerable cohorts, and it does look like once we have done the vulnerable we might be dishing out doses to other countries, which is slightly inconvenient as I might have my honeymoon later this year and my Mrs (38) has had hers due to being a care worker ~ so she might be going on her honeymoon alone at this rate!

You shouldn't deprive her, the obvious option is for her to find an older man to go on honeymoon with...

The problem is I've no idea who / where / how the spare jabs are dished out so I haven't really got any hope of getting one, and if you think about it, its not really that bad; there are people in greater need.

Quite. By definition the spare jabs are when they've got a bit leftover so will be a bit unpredictable unless you're in a setting like eg a prison where it's easy to just grab a few extra people to finish up a vial. My favourite story is the vaccine delivery that got caught in a snowstorm in Oregon, and rather than see it go to waste they started jabbing everyone else in the traffic jam.

I suspect there's going to be a bit of a bustup as we get towards Easter and we have various special-interest groups claiming they should be at the front of the queue once the over 50's are done.

As a bit of light relief, apparently some people "haven't heard there's a pandemic on"

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/house-pa...lice-they-didnt-know-about-covid-19-pandemic/

 

[soupdragon]

I wasn't expecting to get my 1st *** till mid April but just had a call from my GP. Tomorrow at 16.10 for my first ***. Must be a cancellation or something. 63 years old and mild controlled asthma puts me way down the list. Heart valve replacement last March shouldn't move me up the list either.
I'll ask tomorrow

Cheers. Tom

 

[marshbrewer]

Hope all goes well Tom.

 

[Hop_it]

Had mine (AZ variety) on Saturday at the local rugby club. The organisation and service were excellent. I have a needle phobia, so I don't want to see it or have a running commentary, otherwise I'll end up on the floor. They were fine about it, and dealt with it very sympathetically.
The only downside was that I felt rubbish for the following 2 days: aches, shivers, bad head, and dizzy. . . . . . . It was bad enough to put me off my beer. Fortunately today I feel a whole lot better, so I'll be doing some catching up tonight . . . . . . There's a Belgian Blonde waiting for me in the garage that I really want to get familiar with

 

[soupdragon]

Hope all goes well Tom.

Needles freak me out at the best of times although my first ever flu *** last October was ok
Will report back, hope my arm doesn't fall off.

Cheers. Tom

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It looks like the current vaccine is effective against the new strain although as it says below its effect is reduced, a huge sigh of relief here after reading that.



The Kent variant of coronavirus that has been spreading in the UK appears to be undergoing some 'worrying' new genetic changes, say scientists.

Tests on some samples show a mutation, called E484K, already seen in the South Africa and Brazil variants that are of concern.
Although this change may reduce vaccine effectiveness, the current ones in use should still work, say experts.
The UK has already stepped up measures to control the spread of new variants.
Urgent testing for the South Africa variant is starting in parts of England and travel restrictions have been introduced to stop more cases entering from abroad.
Experts working with Public Health England found a small number of cases of the UK variant with the E484K mutation - it was seen in 11 out of 214,159 samples that they tested, and predominantly from the South West of England.

• How worrying are the new variants?
• Which areas will have mass testing for Covid variant?

It's not unexpected that variants are appearing or that they will continue to change - all viruses mutate as they make new copies of themselves to spread and thrive.
Dr Julian Tang, a virus expert at the University of Leicester, described the finding as "a worrying development, though not entirely unexpected".
He said it was important people follow the lockdown rules and get cases of coronavirus down to prevent opportunities for the virus to mutate further.
"Otherwise not only can the virus continue to spread, it can also evolve."
He said that allowing spread could allow a "melting pot" for different emerging variants.
Scientists have already been checking what these new mutations might mean for existing coronavirus vaccines that were designed around earlier versions of the virus that started the pandemic.
Some research appears to show E484K may help the virus evade parts of the immune system called antibodies.
But early results from Moderna suggest its vaccine is still effective against variants with this mutation - although the body's immune response may not be as strong or prolonged.
Two new coronavirus vaccines that could be approved soon - one from Novavax and another from Janssen - also appear to offer good cover against variants, protecting against serious illness.
Even in the worst case scenario, vaccines can be redesigned and tweaked to be a better match in a matter or weeks or months, if necessary, say experts.
A silver lining may be that the variants are mutating in a similar way rather than diverging from each other.
Prof Ravi Gupta from the University of Cambridge said: "This gives us a sign that it has certain favoured routes - and we can work to block those off with a vaccine."
Former UK health secretary Jeremy Hunt said the race was on to vaccinate as many people as quickly as possible in order to keep a step ahead of the virus.
Measures such as washing your hands, keeping your distance from other people and wearing a face covering will still help prevent infections.
BBC New,

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Must be a cancellation or something. 63 years old and mild controlled asthma puts me way down the list. Heart valve replacement last March shouldn't move me up the list either.

I'd imagine that if they've say booked everyone in from group 5 over the next 2-3 weeks then rather than messing around someone from group 5 by bumping them up a few weeks, they just start working their way through the list for group 6. You may think it's minor but given that it targets respiratory and vascular systems, I'd imagine your history is enough to be considered an at-risk <65 and so in group 6.

 

[soupdragon]

I'd imagine that if they've say booked everyone in from group 5 over the next 2-3 weeks then rather than messing around someone from group 5 by bumping them up a few weeks, they just start working their way through the list for group 6. You may think it's minor but given that it targets respiratory and vascular systems, I'd imagine your history is enough to be considered an at-risk <65 and so in group 6.

You do have a point about not messing people around if there's a gap in the queue, I'm certainly not complaining.
Would be nice to know if it is the asthma though. Although I'm sure it's categorised as a severe condition in it's own right the priority list states severe asthma to get an uplift in the queue.
Daughter's is worse than mine so would be great to see if she might be sooner rather than later

Cheers. Tom

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[MmmBeer]

Quite - there will be a handful who might have medical conditions that might be a problem, but otherwise that's near criminal if that's your chosen career. But it's to be expected - only about 70% of people entitled to free flu jabs take them so even for SARS2 you can expect a significant refusal rate even without the daft stories going round social media. Still, it means the rest of us get them quicker....



You shouldn't deprive her, the obvious option is for her to find an older man to go on honeymoon with...



Quite. By definition the spare jabs are when they've got a bit leftover so will be a bit unpredictable unless you're in a setting like eg a prison where it's easy to just grab a few extra people to finish up a vial. My favourite story is the vaccine delivery that got caught in a snowstorm in Oregon, and rather than see it go to waste they started jabbing everyone else in the traffic jam.

I suspect there's going to be a bit of a bustup as we get towards Easter and we have various special-interest groups claiming they should be at the front of the queue once the over 50's are done.

As a bit of light relief, apparently some people "haven't heard there's a pandemic on"

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/house-pa...lice-they-didnt-know-about-covid-19-pandemic/

I had stated in an earlier thread that if I was offered the flu *** this winter, I would have it. When it was offered, I was in two minds whether to take them up on it, could I be bothered? Is it worth the risk going into the surgery with all those coronaviri floating about? In the end I had it, but I can understand why take-up was as low as 70%. I would be very surprised if the Covid vaccine take-up wasn't significantly higher.

When spare doses are given to people outside the current target group, are these being formally recorded? And will those people be recalled out of sequence for their second jabs 12 weeks later? Difficult to do in a snowstorm but interesting to find out what happens.

 

[dad_of_jon]

spares are offered at the end of the day as it's better to *** someone than the unused vaccine go in the bin. The will be some late cancellations /no-shows because if you take ill suddenly you're not supposed to have the ***.

 

[marshbrewer]

Some good news; Looks like the longer spacing between jabs UK policy (for the Astra / Oxford) *** is probably the best strategy and could actually increase effectiveness;

“ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 programmes aimed at vaccinating a large proportion of population with single dose, with second dose given after 3 months is an effective strategy for reducing disease, & may be optimal for rollout of a pandemic vaccine when supplies are limited”

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Although I'm sure it's categorised as a severe condition in it's own right the priority list states severe asthma to get an uplift in the queue.
Daughter's is worse than mine so would be great to see if she might be sooner rather than later

All you need to know is in the official guidelines, chapter 14a of the "Green Book" :
https://assets.publishing.service.g...data/file/955548/Greenbook_chapter_14a_v6.pdf"Individuals with a severe lung condition, including those with asthma that requires continuous or repeated use of systemic steroids or with previous exacerbations requiring hospital admission, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) including chronic bronchitis and emphysema; bronchiectasis, cystic fibrosis, interstitial lung fibrosis, pneumoconiosis and bronchopulmonary dysplasia (BPD)....Congenital heart disease, hypertension with cardiac complications, chronic heart failure, individuals requiring regular medication and/or follow-up for ischaemic heart disease. This includes individuals with atrial fibrillation, peripheral vascular disease or a history of venous thromboembolism."

I'd guess your heart valve gets you in there one way or another? Or potentially, someone's using the "someone cancelled" to justify calling you in on the grounds that your cumulative risk is probably higher than many in group 6, even if you don't quite tick any of the boxes on their own.

On the flip side your daughter is female, which reduces the risks, and though she'll be at higher risk than others of her age, the absolute risk is still pretty low assuming she's 40-ish or less, age makes a big difference.

Is it worth the risk going into the surgery with all those coronaviri floating about? In the end I had it, but I can understand why take-up was as low as 70%. I would be very surprised if the Covid vaccine take-up wasn't significantly higher.

70% is the typical hit rate, not last year's, so nothing to do with people being scared of SARS2. I think I saw somewhere if anything it was a bit higher this year.

There seems to be pressure building in the US towards a get-1-***-into-all-the-risk-groups-ASAP approach. One caveat, one *** may only protect about half of over-80s from the South African variant, although at the moment all we have is one lab study. In which case the balance of risk may swing back to getting a second *** into the over-80s before say Group 7, hard to tell. Depends a lot on whether strains with the E484K mutation get a hold in this country, apparently some "Kent" strains have already acquired it.



https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...e-elderly-at-risk-new-study-suggests-12206375

 

[Tim Wilkes]

I am not convinced the vaccine is a panacea, I will get it but the variants will go on for years I reckon so this is the new world. We need to get used to it and come up with a better way to accommodate it. I really hope I a wrong, time to put put my crystal ball away and wait see

Presumably, it'll be something like the current flu vaccine - a regular top up?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

That's what they are reporting, they have the vaccine and will need to tweak it every year as it mutates as they do with the flu ***.