Citra/IPA questions

[RobWalker]

I havn't managed to get a really great IPA down yet, so I'm hoping somebody can help me out here...

Anyway, I thought about this for a recipe. I love oakham citra, and the big america IPA's, so would love to brew one. a strong malt backbone with loads of hop flavour is what i'm after. US-05 yeast, naturally. caramunich is a combination (in theory) of munich malt and caramel 120L, one on one side, one on the other. I hope this is enough to add a ballsey malt flavour to the beer, if not I'm getting 500g so i'm happy to up it...

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L      
Boil Size: 22.89 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 8.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 45.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
4.00 kg       Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM)            Grain        87.9 %        
0.30 kg       Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM)                Grain        6.6 %         
0.25 kg       Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM)                 Grain        5.5 %         
10.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (60 min)                  Hops         15.6 IBU      
15.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (30 min)                  Hops         18.0 IBU      
20.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (10 min)                  Hops         11.3 IBU      
20.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (0 min)                   Hops          -            
35.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (Dry Hop 4 days)          Hops          -

That's 100g of citra total, 55 for aroma. Is it portioned out alright? any suggestions? I want a massive hop aroma, even overpowering.

cheers!

 

[boozy_shoes]

I personally wouldn't do a 30 minute addition. From what i've read it seems a waste as you get neither the value for money with your bittering nor the precious flavour and aroma as this gets boiled off. I would split it between your 60 minute addition and an addition at 5 minutes, maybe split it 20g@60min instead of the 10 and the other 5g@5min

 

[RobWalker]

interesting, thanks.

what's worrying me here is how wildely the IBU varies with just 5g hops, and if i'm off on my boil volumes etc (i'm a bit of a just lob it in brewer,) i wonder if it could affect it badly. certainly this could cause issues with liquoring back, as I really do want this about 5% and I really do want it about 35 IBU, and I may have to sacrifice one for the other.

what if I used some leftover cluster for bittering and portioned the 100g citra between say, 20, 10, 0 and dry hop? or maybe I should use malt extract (I have nothing against doing so!) and be a little more accurate with my volumes?

or - I could have 500g DME on hand in case I need to add more in and carry on with AG. I gotta buy a few hundred gram for growing a yeast anyway...

 

[boozy_shoes]

Using the Cluster sounds like a plan. Save the tasty expensive hops for the flavour and aroma and let cheaper workhorse hops do the ugly bitter stuff!

With regards to the IBU, apparently we are unable to tell the difference for a bitterness of less than 5 IBU so if you aim for 35 you should be somewhere in the ball park (as long as you liquor back to your original pre-boil volume)I always work out my hop additions as the wort is in the boiler and getting up to temperature so i know what gravity and volume I have to do the sums.

And DME is always good to have knocking around, for starters, bumping up a brews gravity or if you fancy a mad extract recipe experiment.

 

[RobWalker]

wow, great idea! i can easily measure my volumes too as my method (somewhat a bodge, but all makes perfect sense) requires me to transfer to an FV prior to boiling, so I can get my boil volume no problem and go from there...heat up takes 20 mins anyway!

so it will still carry through plenty of pungent citra flavour without a 60 min addition? should I consider a 30 min addition if I'm not going to use a 60? i hear cluster is pretty complimentary to IPA hops, so happy to use it...I have 50g spare.

on reading too, many people are saying that it's not good for bittering because it's quite dirty. a plain hop would be better...so maybe this?

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L      
Boil Size: 22.89 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 8.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 37.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
4.00 kg       Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM)            Grain        87.9 %        
0.30 kg       Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM)                Grain        6.6 %         
0.25 kg       Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM)                 Grain        5.5 %         
20.00 gm      Cluster [7.00%]  (60 min)                 Hops         16.9 IBU      
20.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (10 min)                  Hops         11.3 IBU      
10.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (20 min)                  Hops         9.5 IBU       
25.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (0 min)                   Hops          -            
45.00 gm      Citra [14.40%]  (Dry Hop 4 days)          Hops          -

 

[boozy_shoes]

I just started working out a rough idea of hopping....before noticing the second recipe box. Yea yours looks good but put your Cluster in as a First Wort Hop. It's meant to give a deeper engrained and smoother bitterness than at 60 (and the utilisation isn't much different). It also means you can get on with other stuff instead of looking for it to reach the boil.

 

[lambert]

Are you not supposed to FWH your finishing hops? :wha: :hmm:

 

[boozy_shoes]

I FWH whatever would be at 60......not heard about it having to be the finishing hops. Would any flavour remain in a FWH?

 

[lambert]

I FWH whatever would be at 60......not heard about it having to be the finishing hops. Would any flavour remain in a FWH?

I'm not even approaching being knowledgeable on the subject so I have to revert to John Palmer for a short answer Linky. I've done some limited reading (internet) on the subject and it seems as if the science behind FWH is still to be explained 100% (why it seems smoother, if aroma remains, how much to FWH, etc). The FWH brews I've done only had some (around 30% as per the guidelines) of the finishing hops as FWH and the rest went into the kettle as usual. The flavour was therefore probably due to the normal late additions!

One day I'll do a side by side brew, one FWH and the other normally late hopped.....

 

[JKaranka]

I think it was Thornbridge that was going for 4 times more hops at the end of the boil or after than during it :