Cider in progress, advice?

[Appleyard]

I pressed some apples, and pasteurised/bottled some of the juice, and used more of the juice to make cider.

Procedure was in all cases to extract the juice, add a couple of ground campden tablets to prevent excess oxidation, and pectolase to clear, wait overnight, siphon off and fermend.

It's on top of the range, where it sits at 22-25 centigrade.

The cider seems to have stopped fermenting. The brews are:

1) 25l in a plastic drum with an airlock. Fermented in a lidded bucket in a cool place for 7-10 days (Wilko "Gervin Universal" yeast, OG 1040, had nutrient and 1kg sugar added 25/Oct. Stopped working a week ago.

2) 25l in a plastic drum. Probably similar to (1), but I seem to have lost the label. Also stopped working, a week or more ago.

3) 25l started Nov 11th, OG 1043, had 1.5kg sugar added, used a new packet of Wilko Gervin Universal, plus nutrient, it's standing on the floor in a plastic drum, and also seems to have stopped working.


I am now getting into a tizzy, because I don't know what to do next.

I'd like a drink in the 6-8%ABV range, but the last lot I made, a couple of years ago, was bone dry, and it would be nice to have it a bit sweeter out of the bottle. I'm sort-of reluctant to add "chemicals" to it, so it may be a case of adding sugar at drinking time!

Any help on what to do, and have I done anything like right so far?

 

[DavieC]

Hi, have you taken a gravity check? If it's around 1000 it's probably finished.Also1040 seems a bit low for OG especially with added sugar so won't give the higher ABV your trying for .Im not sure about back sweetening as I prefer mine dry but you can add sugar or a little apple juice when you want to drink it. Let us know how it goes, thanks.

 

[Appleyard]

Thank you for your reply.

The OG of 1040 was for some garden apples, unfortunately I was worried about "harvest volume" as a lot of apples seemed to be falling off and picked while under-ripe., The 1.5kg was added, and will have increased the gravity to something (?).

I'm wondering whether more sugar needs to be added, and if so, how?

I have not re-taken an SG measurement. I'm loathe to do so 'cos I don't want to contaminate the cider. I suppose I could sterilise everything really carefully.

When it's drinkable (I hope) I will certainly report on how it went! :)

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

To sweeten the cider you can add a little lactose - unless you’re lactose intolerant! Lactose is non-fermentable.

You can also add Robinson’s Apple cordial to add sweetness and give your cider a fresh apple taste.

 

[Appleyard]

Oh. Lactose! I had not thought about that. Very interesting. Investigations under way.

I have been looking at numbers, so my head's going 'round again. I am absolutely unfamiliar with "Brix" and only vaguely familiar with SG calculations.

A "chaptalization calculator" and "Brix to Specific Gravity Calculator" I tried suggests that in my above brews:

(1) OG 1040 (=10 Brix), had 1kg sugar added to 25l would make it 14 Brix, plugging in figures gives 7.6% ABV.
(3) OG 1.043 (=10.7 Brix), 1.5kg sugar added to make 23l should be 17.76 Brix plugging in figures gives 10% ABV.


Do those figures seem reasonable? *Assuming* that fermentation has finished in such a short time, do I just bottle now and wait?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Oh. Lactose! I had not thought about that. Very interesting. Investigations under way.

I have been looking at numbers, so my head's going 'round again. I am absolutely unfamiliar with "Brix" and only vaguely familiar with SG calculations.

A "chaptalization calculator" and "Brix to Specific Gravity Calculator" I tried suggests that in my above brews:

(1) OG 1040 (=10 Brix), had 1kg sugar added to 25l would make it 14 Brix, plugging in figures gives 7.6% ABV.
(3) OG 1.043 (=10.7 Brix), 1.5kg sugar added to make 23l should be 17.76 Brix plugging in figures gives 10% ABV.


Do those figures seem reasonable? *Assuming* that fermentation has finished in such a short time, do I just bottle now and wait?

Mostly. I think for those numbers you’re expecting high attenuation from your yeast, the actually percentages might be a tad lower?

If you’re thinking of bottling (rather than using a keg/pressure barrel) you need to be sure that fermentation is complete by taking two gravity readings, one two-days after the other. Only if the two readings are the same is fermentation complete. If not, keep the last reading and take another two days later, etc. This is to make sure you don’t over-carbonate the bottles and risk a blown bottle.

Once you know fermentation is complete you can bottle, remembering to add priming sugar to carbonate.

 

[Appleyard]

I don't know about attenuation. I just bunged the figures into a calculaton at "Br*rs Fr*nd" (unsure about forum rules on naming names, will have to look that up, too). How much less might the ABV be (not that it matters that much if it's only a fraction)?

I was thinking of re-using glass bottles with crown caps, or possibly 2l PET cider bottles, which I'm using for my "hooch" brewing experiments. However, while caps are easy to find and cheap, the same can't be said for bottles. I've already used about 150 pint ones for pasteurised juice, and I haven't got that many pint (and 500ml) ones left. I suppose I could go out and raid people's glass recycling boxes, but my son says "Eurgh, no!". The pubs are closed, and I don't know whether they'd be keen anyway. Anyway.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I don't know about attenuation. I just bunged the figures into a calculaton at "Br*rs Fr*nd" (unsure about forum rules on naming names, will have to look that up, too). How much less might the ABV be (not that it matters that much if it's only a fraction)?

I was thinking of re-using glass bottles with crown caps, or possibly 2l PET cider bottles, which I'm using for my "hooch" brewing experiments. However, while caps are easy to find and cheap, the same can't be said for bottles. I've already used about 150 pint ones for pasteurised juice, and I haven't got that many pint (and 500ml) ones left. I suppose I could go out and raid people's glass recycling boxes, but my son says "Eurgh, no!". The pubs are closed, and I don't know whether they'd be keen anyway. Anyway.

You need to be a little bit careful about glass bottles because you need to use bottles that are intended to hold pressure. Raiding for empty beer bottles would be OK. PET bottles (again, intended to hold carbonated drinks) are most safe, they can hold 150psi and will seriously mis-shape well before they burst.

Attenuation is the degree that your yeast breaks down the fermentable sugars during fermentation. A fairly typical attenuation is 85% so if you started fermentation at 1060 the final gravity would be about 1009.

ABV is original gravity points - final gravity points * 0.13125 so for the figures above:

( 60 - 9 ) * 0.13125 = 51 * 0.13125 = 6.7%

 

[DavieC]

Hi, you need to sanitise your hydrometer and do SG check.Until you know where it's at regarding fermentation you can't really proceed. Anything above 1000 will give a little sweetness , under 1000 will be drier. The ones I've done from Apples are usually OG1050 ,FG1000 . The Wilko yeast ,when I've used it ,is usually good,so should get you a fairly lowSG.

 

[johncrobinson]

With the low strength you are brewing to and your warm conditions the yeast will eat all the sugar in an amazingly short time.

To be CERTAIN of where you are with a fermentation you really need to bite the bullet with regards using a hydrometer.There is not really any alternative.
Anything else is just guesswork.

Its even more important to use one if you want to get into carbonation

 

[Appleyard]

To be CERTAIN of where you are with a fermentation you really need to bite the bullet with regards using a hydrometer.There is not really any alternative.
Anything else is just guesswork.

Its even more important to use one if you want to get into carbonation

I've had one for ages. It's an old Boots glass one, calibrated at 15 degrees, supposedly reading to .002, if you can see it well enough... I'm sure it'll indicate the FG, but I am not sure it will tell me whether there's a tiny difference between yesterday's reading and today's. How is it used in carbonation? I normally just bung in a measuring spoon's worth of sugar (seze of spoon based on volume of bottle and excitement required).

 

[johncrobinson]

You really only need three readings,One at the start to determine the starting gravity (OG) ,Another when you THINK fermentation is finished,And a third about a week later to CONFIRM its finished.

Its purely a safety thing to prevent exploding bottles.
By making sure all the sugar has been used before bottling,Also ensuring that any carbonation sugar added is only sugar available to the yeast prevents to high a pressure developing.

As a wee bonus you get to know your abv.

 

[Appleyard]

Right. I have just bottled the first lot, which has had 9 days since my post (it wasstarted on Oct 25th):

1) 25l in a plastic drum with an airlock. Fermented in a lidded bucket in a cool place for 7-10 days (Wilko "Gervin Universal" yeast, OG 1040, had nutrient and 1kg sugar added 25/Oct. Stopped working a week ago.

I got 11 2L bottles of it. FG was 0.996. I also got about 1/2 a litre of slightly cloudy stuff which I inbtend to add a bit of sugar to and drink today or tomorrow. "Waste not, want not".

 

[Appleyard]

Bottled another 25l drum just now, also into 2l bottles. Got 12, plus some extra to add to the "leftovers" of the first lit. FG was .997, although the OG might have been a bit higher. Unknown. Dunno where the label is, if it's fallen onto the top of the range, it might have been sucked up the flue. Bother. Looks the same as the first lot, tastes similar (dry, dry, dry!). Ugh. Maybe I'll add some sugar to the leftovers & make it into another "'orrible" to see what happens. This doesn't half use a lot of bottles, I will have to go to eTcso for some more.