Cider Brewing Question...

[Skydiver]

Hey Guys,

New to the forum, predominantly focused on all grain brewing. The missus was somewhat irked at the amount of space I was taking up, and decidedly unimpressed with the amount of general faffing about involved, until she asked if I could make Cider.... my response, "of course darling"

There was an lightning fast, neck-snapping volte face in attitude, girlish smiles, and an immediate request to "cough up buster..." Hence (as I do not in fact know how to make Cider...) I am here, cap in hand, looking for advice on how I should in fact deliver said sweet, fruity and intoxicating beverage to her who knows best (just in case she's reading this :)

I'm hoping that somewhere, in the depths of the HBG archive, there is a step-by-step Cider making guide, which somebody can point me to. If not just a few pointers would be quite welcome, a few questions and a limited list of things I know:

• I understand that the preservatives in Apple Juice will prevent yeast activation. I can source Martinelli's Apple Juice locally which is advertised as having no additives of any kind.
• Missus would like sweet cider, is Fermentis SafCider TF-6 an appropriate yeast?
• Pectic Enzyme is available locally (if it's a requirement).
• What's with brewing strong Tea to add to the FV..? (was surprised to see this addition in many cider threads on the forum)
• Missus loves... Brothers Strawberry & Lime English Cider, and I would quite probably be regarded as the greatest thing since sliced bread (or Som Tam even...) If I managed to cough up a drinkable version of that.

Thanks in advance to anybody who decides to wade in and help me figure this out.

 

[Beanhead]

Hi @Skydiver

From my experience:

1. It's always best to get 'pressed' or 'not from concentrate' apple juice, I've done turbo cider in the past with the cheaper preservative type of apple juice, took longer then usual but still fermented out; maybe I got lucky.
2. I've tried various yeasts in the past, but my tried and tested method for sweet cider has always been a generic cider yeast, let it ferment out (even if its dry) and then back sweeten to your preferred taste. Usually with something like Xylitol. This means there's no risk of triggering fermentation again if you try to add sugar to sweeten or prime bottles.
3. You will always get varying degrees of 'haze' in fruit brews, so I always add a tsp of pectolase during fermentation.
4. The tea is added for 'tannin'. My understanding is its the mouthfeel you get, but tannin occurs naturally in things like grape skin. As alot of us use juices and not the pure fruits, we miss out on these tannins when brewing. Another high source of tannin is tea. So you will see recipes whereby we will substitute for a heavy 1-3 teabag strong cup of tea brewed for a while and cooled. You can buy powdered Tannin too, which I believe is derived from grape skin. This stage is a preference.
5. Whenever I've brewed anything fresh strawberry related I've never had the strong strawberry taste follow through post fermentation, until I started using syrups. I would advise a recipe of apple juice, plus a lowicz/monin strawberry syrup, plus your lime juice to ferment out. Then when you condition chuck in some sliced limes for the smell/scent. Just be wary apple juice can be quite citric/acidic so you may not actually need much lime juice, just the hint/smell of it.

Others may have more tried and tested methods. Good luck in your cider brewing.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I'm hoping that somewhere, in the depths of the HBG archive, there is a step-by-step Cider making guide

@Skydiver
Have you read this?

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/how-to-make-turbo-cider.69059/

 

[Skydiver]

Hi @Skydiver

From my experience:

1. It's always best to get 'pressed' or 'not from concentrate' apple juice, I've done turbo cider in the past with the cheaper preservative type of apple juice, took longer then usual but still fermented out; maybe I got lucky.
2. I've tried various yeasts in the past, but my tried and tested method for sweet cider has always been a generic cider yeast, let it ferment out (even if its dry) and then back sweeten to your preferred taste. Usually with something like Xylitol. This means there's no risk of triggering fermentation again if you try to add sugar to sweeten or prime bottles.
3. You will always get varying degrees of 'haze' in fruit brews, so I always add a tsp of pectolase during fermentation.
4. The tea is added for 'tannin'. My understanding is its the mouthfeel you get, but tannin occurs naturally in things like grape skin. As alot of us use juices and not the pure fruits, we miss out on these tannins when brewing. Another high source of tannin is tea. So you will see recipes whereby we will substitute for a heavy 1-3 teabag strong cup of tea brewed for a while and cooled. You can buy powdered Tannin too, which I believe is derived from grape skin. This stage is a preference.
5. Whenever I've brewed anything fresh strawberry related I've never had the strong strawberry taste follow through post fermentation, until I started using syrups. I would advise a recipe of apple juice, plus a lowicz/monin strawberry syrup, plus your lime juice to ferment out. Then when you condition chuck in some sliced limes for the smell/scent. Just be wary apple juice can be quite citric/acidic so you may not actually need much lime juice, just the hint/smell of it.

Others may have more tried and tested methods. Good luck in your cider brewing.

Thanks for responding, much appreciated.

In point two, you mention back sweetening with Xylitol. I'd prefer to use something more natural to sweeten, is there another method to sweeten after fermentation ,but still prevent the possibility of triggering additional fermentation, pasteurization perhaps?

Thanks for explaining that Tannin is the reason for adding tea, your explanation makes perfect sense, never considered that aspect of only using Juice.

 

[Skydiver]

@Skydiver
Have you read this?

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/how-to-make-turbo-cider.69059/

I was scrolling through the thread and came across it last last night just before falling asleep. I guess it's a pinned thread as it was above my post, which is probably why I missed it first time around, but I'll take a good look at it, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Griff097]

The post Chippy pointed you towards was my guide to start turbo ciders, just put one on today, the trick I have found is using a sweetening yeast like this one Cider Yeast with sweetener 8g 20-25L for Homebrew Cider making Perry Scrumpy | eBay
This for me make great cider without it being dry, but for a really sweet finish it may require additional sweetening at serving.

18 L of Morrisons savers from concentrate apple juice
2 L of Morrisons Pineapple juice
5 tbsp of Pectalase
5 tbsp of yeast nutrient
5 tea bags stewed in 1L of boiling water for half an hour
1 packet of cider yeast
in fermentor at 19 degrees for two days then 22 degrees until finished

In my case it has a packet of Mangrove Jacks lager yeast as well, just in case

 

[Griff097]

The post Chippy pointed you towards was my guide to start turbo ciders, just put one on today, the trick I have found is using a sweetening yeast like this one Cider Yeast with sweetener 8g 20-25L for Homebrew Cider making Perry Scrumpy | eBay
This for me make great cider without it being dry, but for a really sweet finish it may require additional sweetening at serving.

18 L of Morrisons savers from concentrate apple juice
2 L of Morrisons Pineapple juice
5 tbsp of Pectalase
5 tbsp of yeast nutrient
5 tea bags stewed in 1L of boiling water for half an hour
1 packet of cider yeast
in fermentor at 19 degrees for two days then 22 degrees until finished

In my case it has a packet of Mangrove Jacks lager yeast as well, just in case

Well I have an answer for you if you want sweet cider I seem to have come across the answer by mistake!
If you pitch MJ54 and cider yeast with sweetener, you end up with a really sweet cider.
Nothing like the last one I did which was a medium dry.

 

[Skydiver]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the valuable info, apologies for the delay in responding, had quite a hectic few weeks here.

From what I've read so far, the trickiest part of this will be ensuring I get a 'Sweet' Cider without triggering secondary fermentation. I'm thinking about the following strategy and would appreciate your feedback:

• I will use Fermentis Safcider TF-6 which I'm told will result in a sweet finish (does anybody have any experience using this yeast?)
• I am trying to brew a strawberry and lime cider, I can source both Strawberry and Lime syrups here, but am unsure what amount to use of each syrup to add when fermenting a 19 litre batch, any recommendations?
• Finally for priming; I am considering batch priming, using equal amounts of strawberry and lime syrup instead of sugar. I read that 5ml per 500ml bottle gives a nice fizz, so that would equate to approx. 95ml of each syrup... any thoughts on this as a strategy for priming?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to reply, much appreciated.

 

[An Ankoù]

Just a thought. If you're adding syrups to your cider, do they contain preservatives and artificial sweetners. If so, your cider may end up sweet enough without adding additional sweetners.
As a matter of interest, do cider kits exist where you just add a can and bag if sugar to water and pitch the yeast.
I make cider every year, by pulping apples and pressing out the juice. A bit old-fashioned, I know.

 

[Cwrw666]

Best way to sweeten cider in my experience is to brew it dry and when you serve it add a half inch of apple juice to the bottom of the glass first. Artificial sweeteners and even sugar just don't taste natural.