Chocolate Orange

[keat64]

A brewery local to me makes an ale they call Black Voodoo.
Its a dark porter which tastes like a Terry's Chocolate Orange.

My local HBS sells orange peel (he says for wheat beer) and reading the packet, I see that the ratio is 1g per ltr or there abouts, so that's probably my benchmark for my Voodoo esk ale.

My question really is, how to make the chocolate porter.
I've done beers with chocolate malts, but I wouldn't say that they taste like chocolate.

Does anyone have a recipe ?

 

[JonBrew]

don't have a recipe as such but have always found byo.com to be a good resource for such things.

to get good chocolate flavour I would use a good amount of chocolate malt and also age the finished beer on cocoa nibs (roasting them is said to give a stronger chocolate flavour) and loads of fresh orange peel/zest (I imagine you'd need a lot to stand up to strong malt/chocolate base). you could also add some orange-like hops at the end of the boil and/or as a dry hop. Amarillo and waimea are two that I have used in that respect to good effect.

 

[Thodd]

I made a Chocolate type porter a few years back using Raw Cacao Powder and chocolate malt and it was pretty successful.
As for an Orange type hop - have a look into the Mandarina Bavaria Hop.

I've used this in a single hop ale I made and can confirm it has a Tangarine skin bitterness to it.

 

[IainM]

Cocoa nibs would work. You could make a cocoa essence tincture by putting them in vodka, or buy one ready made. I put two of the (20ml?) Prestige Creme De Cacao essence in an 18L milk stout batch and it came out with a strong chocolate flavour. Using only one would be more subtle.

 

[chuffer]

mmmmm *drools*

 

[Zephyr259]

I've got a chocolate cherry porter about ready to bottle. I was aiming for a 8L batch but think it ended up closer to 7L. I put 50g of bournville cocoa power in for the last 10 mins of the boil. The wort tasted really chocolatey and there was a good chocolate aftertaste in the beer when it was being racked to secondary. Would you like the full grain bill?

 

[Simonh82]

I listened to the experimental brewing podcast a while ago (maybe June or July) and they interview a commercial brewery who spent quite a lot of time talking about his chocolate orange stout. He said he used chocolate essence and a Belgian yeast (can't remember which one but I think he mentions it in the podcast). The yeast choice was apparently very important and he tried several but went back to the Belgian.

You can get chocolate essence from a place called Uncle Roy's consumable concoctions. I just picked up some of their fruit essences and the smell incredible. Only draw back is a £10 minimum order plus delivery but it arrived next day.

 

[keat64]

I've got a chocolate cherry porter about ready to bottle. I was aiming for a 8L batch but think it ended up closer to 7L. I put 50g of bournville cocoa power in for the last 10 mins of the boil. The wort tasted really chocolatey and there was a good chocolate aftertaste in the beer when it was being racked to secondary. Would you like the full grain bill?

As I'm probably a few weeks away, I'm open to any suggestions regarding grain bills.
I would want to make this as easy as possible, so Coaco powder would suit me.
I wouldn't have a clue where to get nibs.

I'd be interested to learn how the finished article tastes.
I wouldn't want something that tastes too sickly.

 

[keat64]

don't have a recipe as such but have always found byo.com to be a good resource for such things.

to get good chocolate flavour I would use a good amount of chocolate malt and also age the finished beer on cocoa nibs (roasting them is said to give a stronger chocolate flavour) and loads of fresh orange peel/zest (I imagine you'd need a lot to stand up to strong malt/chocolate base). you could also add some orange-like hops at the end of the boil and/or as a dry hop. Amarillo and waimea are two that I have used in that respect to good effect.

Amarillo is one which I intend to keep in my arsenal at some point

 

[Sadfield]

You can get cocoa nibs from Holland and Barrett.

I'll echo the point on orange hops with Amarillo, Mandarina Bavaria and First Gold may be a good one too.

I find a better alternative to dry peel is to zest a fresh orange with a potato peeler being careful not to take the pith which adds bitterness. This can be added late to the boil or soaked in some vodka and then added late in fermentation.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[Zephyr259]

Here's my full recipe

1.5 kg Maris Otter
100 g Crystal 60 (Regular)
100 g Crystal 90 (Dark)
100 g Chocolate Malt

Mashed at 67C in 7.2 L water for an hour then dunk sparged (I do BIAB) in 3.8 L water heated to 76C. Collected ~9.5 L at 1.043.
Boiled for an hour with 9 g Brewer's Gold (6.6%) at 60 mins then 50 g cocoa for 10 mins, end up with ~7.25 L at 1.057.
Chilled and pitched 5 g of Safale S-04, fermented for 2 weeks in primary (my standard) and got down to 1.010.
Racked on to 1.35 kg of cherries for 2 weeks, re-fermented a bit, just bottled today and the gravity is still 1.010.

The chocolate was very powerful in the wort, a nice aftertaste post-primary and may just be a hint after sitting on the cherries. Not a huge fruit flavour but a bit of fruity acidity/bite which might be nice once it's carbonated and chilled.

The recipe was formulated from the back of "How to Brew" where John gives basic recipes for a few styles in very broad strokes. I think it's going to be a very tasty porter but maybe a bit mellow on the additional flavours.

Have fun with the oranges.

 

[JapanBrew]

Here's my full recipe

1.5 kg Maris Otter
100 g Crystal 60 (Regular)
100 g Crystal 90 (Dark)
100 g Chocolate Malt

Mashed at 67C in 7.2 L water for an hour then dunk sparged (I do BIAB) in 3.8 L water heated to 76C. Collected ~9.5 L at 1.043.
Boiled for an hour with 9 g Brewer's Gold (6.6%) at 60 mins then 50 g cocoa for 10 mins, end up with ~7.25 L at 1.057.
Chilled and pitched 5 g of Safale S-04, fermented for 2 weeks in primary (my standard) and got down to 1.010.
Racked on to 1.35 kg of cherries for 2 weeks, re-fermented a bit, just bottled today and the gravity is still 1.010.

The chocolate was very powerful in the wort, a nice aftertaste post-primary and may just be a hint after sitting on the cherries. Not a huge fruit flavour but a bit of fruity acidity/bite which might be nice once it's carbonated and chilled.

The recipe was formulated from the back of "How to Brew" where John gives basic recipes for a few styles in very broad strokes. I think it's going to be a very tasty porter but maybe a bit mellow on the additional flavours.

Have fun with the oranges.

I think I need to do this one. Anything with orange and chocolate works for me. From the griss size is this 6 liters?

 

[Zephyr259]

I was aiming for 8L in the fermenter but ended up with only a bit over 7L. I got 16 330ml bottles in the end as I lost a lot of beer to sediment and cherries.

 

[JapanBrew]

I was aiming for 8L in the fermenter but ended up with only a bit over 7L. I got 16 330ml bottles in the end as I lost a lot of beer to sediment and cherries.

ok, first lesson in home brewing, sediment, TRUB, is not a loss. You get that crap into any great beer, you lost. As you brew, calculate the trub and other factors in. Get beer you love. Don't save money.

 

[Zephyr259]

I know I can make allowances for this in my volumes but this was only my 3rd AG brew, I'm still figuring out my system and this was the first time using fruit in secondary. Also I would count this time as a loss as the siphon lost suction early due to the cherries and the sediment in the 2nd demijohn was so soft I had to leave a bottle or so behind as it was just mud.

Thanks.

 

[keat64]

That seems a lot of choclate malt.
I'd only usually put that much in a 25l brew.

 

[Zephyr259]

Palmer's recipe guide was that a pale ale is base malt + 1 lb of crystal, amber is the pale ale recipe + 1 lb dark crystal and porter is the amber + 1 lb of chocolate. I just scaled back to the 8L mark and rounded for convenience. Tasted pretty good at each stage, guess we'll find out if its too roasty in a couple of weeks once it's drinkable.

 

[keat64]

This is what I came up with in the end.. it's currently in the FV cooling ready for pitching.
The base malts and CoCoa addition were based on a Youngs Double Chocolate Stout Clone that I found online.
The rest is made up, and or ammended.

Aiming for 25l

4.5kg Mariss Otter
400 grams of Torrified Wheat
350g Chocolate Malt
250g Dark Crstal malt
100g Crystal Malt

Mash and boil for 60 minutes.

I have a decent stock of Progress leaf hops, so chose this. (AA 6.7)
40g 60 minutes
20g at 15 minutes

After 60 minutes total, Remove hop bag.

Add 150g CoaCoa Powder and 25g of Orange peel zest, as above using a potato peeler, plus protofloc or irish moss.
After about 5 minutes boiling I wasn't convinced that it was cholatey or orangey enough, so I added another 50g of CoaCoa and another 25g or Orange peel.
Boiled for 15 mionutes.

I'll post back with the SG later this evening.

Lets see what the outcome is in a few weeks ???

 

[keat64]

1.060... oops it's going be headache material.
Incidentally, my eldest daughter, (who doesn't drink beer) tasted the cooling wort.

Her exact words were, "tastes like a bitter chocolate orange"

 

[Zephyr259]

Sounds like it'll be a great beer. I might go that way with my next porter.

Mine turned out really well. Chocolate flavor could be front the grain or the cocoa but is very smooth and pleasant. Needed a lot more cherries for a proper cherry flavour but I think they added a subtle complexity/bite to the brew which matches the lighter than intended body brilliantly.