Chemclean Residue?

[Siscokid85]

Hi all,

I cleaned my all in one after a brew this morning. I added chemclean to the instructions / dosing and ran at 55 degrees for an hour then I rinsed out. See below photos, I seem to have been left with a residue on the inside of the tank. It is clearly a tidemark to the level of how much chemclean / water mix I had in.

I rinsed with cold water which probably didnt help.

Has anybody else had this? And if so how is best to remove?... and prevent of course!?

Thanks

 

[hoppyscotty]

Yes I stopped using chemclean for this. I do tend to leave sanitiser in vessels between brews and with other starsan-like products I'd had no issues but with chemclean if left for several days or a week or two left a soapy white residue that was hard to clean off. Think its fine if you use and rinse immediately or maybe use with higher level of dilution.

 

[Siscokid85]

Thanks @hoppyscotty, do you mean chemsan or chemclean? This was from chemclean which is their version of PBW, whereas chemsan is their version of starsan. This came from chemclean when cleaning after a brew, used it in the AIO for an hour maybe an hour and 20 max, so pretty much in line with their instructions. I have soaked kegs with it and forgotten to empty for a couple of weeks and that does leave a residue, but that comes off relatively easy whereas this is pretty baked on! Keeping chemclean in kegs for anything up to a week has been OK for me, but over that I have had the residue.

I have found chemsan good so far, but I store in plastic.

I tried Chemclean this time round, as I had been using Kegland / Stellarclean Powerful Brewery Wash (PBW for short of course!) that was great but I cant seem to get may hands on it now that proper PBW is back on the UK market, and postage via the kegland aliexpress store makes it uneconomical. As an aside, if anyone knows where to get the stellarclean/Kegland PBW from in the UK then I would be very interested!

 

[hoppyscotty]

I've had this issue with both. Previously I was using either the Grainfather cleaner or PBW and left those in the vessel for a good few days before rinsing out and flushing with starsan/chensan. It was the chemsan I was leaving in the vessel long term and had the residue issue, but I've read people having similar issues with Chemclean. I would use it again but would not leave it in the vessel but I've now moved onto Sodium Percarbonate and StellarClean. I have had a residue left on parts left soaking in StellarClean for some number of weeks, basically its like a dry white coating, but it is dry and wipes off with your finger whereas the Chessman left a soapy white residue that was hard to remove.

 

[Siscokid85]

Ahh I see, yeah I am thinking I will try removing it with some starsan / chemsan, if its chalky its probably alkaline so a light acid like starsan might help shift it, then I will run / heat and flush with fresh water. Just frustrating as you end up cleaning the cleaner if that makes sense!

Oh where have you been getting the stellarclean from? I presume you are UK based? Malt miller have 50g sachets left but that is an expensive way of buying it.

Next time I might just try half an unscented dishwasher tablet and see how I get on.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

As an aside, if anyone knows where to get the stellarclean/Kegland PBW from in the UK then I would be very interested!

The Malt Miller do it.

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/pro...complete-brewery-cleaner-1kg-20-x-50g-sachet/
Edit: oops sorry, didn't read the above properly - it's been a long day!

 

[Scrattajack]

I had the same residue issue with chemclean and it disappeared with a soak in chemsan, so I guess acid is the answer.

 

[LeeH]

Are you in a hard water area? If so this will always be an issue with oxy based cleaners.

Use TFR, it’s basically caustic which is used all over the food industry.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Ahh I see, yeah I am thinking I will try removing it with some starsan / chemsan, if its chalky its probably alkaline so a light acid like starsan might help shift it, then I will run / heat and flush with fresh water. Just frustrating as you end up cleaning the cleaner if that makes sense!

Oh where have you been getting the stellarclean from? I presume you are UK based? Malt miller have 50g sachets left but that is an expensive way of buying it.

Next time I might just try half an unscented dishwasher tablet and see how I get on.

as Tess has pointed out I get mine from Malt Miller. I get the large bottles and they last a long time. I've got kegs and keep the stellar clean I purge from kegs in a bucket and re-use it and keep it for a couple to few months before refreshing it so works out reasonable cost wise.

Chemsan works but just doesn't like to be left over time especially in contact with Stainless Steel, in my experience at least.

I can recommend using Sodium Percarbonate too. I also get it from the Malt Miller in 1.5kg bags for about a tenner. You can see it effervescing when you use it which gives you a nice feeling that it's working. I once left the heating element in my fermenter on after I'd transferred beer into kegs and remembered after about 10 mins of it being buried in spent dry hops and trub which has been nicely backed on leaving a rock hard thick black coating covering the heating element. Nothing would touch it but a 72hr soak in Sodium Percarbonate dissolved almost all of it leaving a softer residue that could be cleaned off with a sponge and a bit of elbow grease. So effective stuff.

 

[Siscokid85]

Just to finish the story off in case anyone searches the forum in years to come, looking for a solution to a similar problem, like I often do...........

I soaked in normal chemsan mix out of my spray bottle for 15 minutes, tried the scrub and no good. Then I used neat chamsan on a cloth and rubbed (think like car polishing technique) and it came off with very little effort. was tricky to get to areas around the back of elements, but tried my best. then I chucked in a couple of litres of RO water, and assumed the mix would roughly be about twice the strength of the recommended chemsan mix with what I had been using already. I then recirculated this for 20 mins through the pump and generally agitating by hand to the lower, harder to get to parts. All drained, rinsed with RO water and dried and it looks as good as new!

As an experiment I might try the chemclean with RO water in the next brew and see if I get the residue, I think it might be an issue with hard water, but only as an experiment, RO water is quite wasteful so don't think I will be doing this as a long term solution.

Moral of the story - dont panic! It will come off. I think I will use the Chemclean tub up and then probably try some sodium percarbonate. and see how I get on.

Thanks for the help and advice!

 

[aolcot]

I have found the same, recently switched to Chemclean from PBW (mainly for costs) and noticed it leaves a residue that I never had with PBW after a soak. Also, the chemclean foams up like crazy when used in a CIP, even though it lists quantities for a CIP cycle on its datasheet, so I don't quite get that.

Does sodium percabonate foam up when used during CIP?

 

[hoppyscotty]

I’ve not had foam with sodium percarbonate. Attached is it in action. Very satisfying to see!

 

[Old Fart At Play]

I dont get foam with sod perc either. Happy with it.

 

[gazza100]

just started using sodium percarbonate this but it seems to leave a slight crust on the inside of my demijohn

any thoughts?

tried to rinse oof but still there

 

[Siscokid85]

just started using sodium percarbonate this but it seems to leave a slight crust on the inside of my demijohn

any thoughts?

tried to rinse oof but still there

Over concentrated starsan / chemsam worked for me, and agitate with a bottle brush?

I must admit it worked best neat on a rag dampened with it and worked like polishing, but of course access wasnt an issue with me.

Have you tried adding very warm water first?

 

[dcbrookes]

just started using sodium percarbonate this but it seems to leave a slight crust on the inside of my demijohn

any thoughts?

tried to rinse oof but still there

I never use sodium percarbonate for more than about 20 minutes - after that, in hard water it starts to break down into sodium carbonate (washing soda) and chalk (which is insoluble in water). It is the precipitated chalk which gives the deposit. I have found that the easiest and cheapest way to remove the deposit is with a 5% citric acid solution.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Barkeepers friend works for accessible parts, rinsing with water as warm or slightly warmer than the PBW helps as well immediately after the pbw soak.

 

[MashBag]

I have tried all manner of chemicals, soaks, boils and CIP (nozzles and pumps)

For a BM by far the best cleaner is caustic TFR in a spray, a good toilet brush (new) and a stainless scrubby for the tricky bits on the element.

When your are done turn it upside down and check the pump.

And cover with a towel, popping the lid on will only increase the chances of issues, that you may or may not find next brewday.

 

[MashBag]

Ps.

just started using sodium percarbonate this but it seems to leave a slight crust on the inside of my demijohn

any thoughts?

tried to rinse oof but still there

TFR works fantastic in glassware too.

 

[LeeH]

I switched to TFR. 25L for 25 quid. Also good for scrubbing the paving and greenhouse.