Cheap forded carbonation, opinions please.

[Steve-h71]

Hi All
Ok so I am a newbie and looking for a cheap way to force carbonate my beer and ciders. I really dont like the sedement at the bottom of my bottles, its a waste of beer...
Today I had a bit of an idea after looking at the tap-a-draft, why not use a bicycle co2 pump, my idea is to use 2L drinks bottles, I had a quick scout about the net and it says the standard 2L bottles can take 80 psi plus, so the 15-20 psi it would take to carbonate my beer/cider would be no problem. I thought you could simply bond a car tyre valve to the bottle cap. I also thought that you could put one of the braided hoses that come on traditional type bike/car pumps with the pressure dial so you know how much co2 you are putting into the bottle....

This is the sort of pump I have seen, it uses the threaded bulbs and you press the button to release co2, so your not wasting the gas like you do in a pressure barel once full.

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/products/ ... _large.jpg

So, as I said I am a newbie to hombrew and I thought this would be a great solution to the old problem of clean carbonated beer. So has this idea been raised before and if not do you think this is a good solution.

 

[graysalchemy]

If you are having a problem with sediment it is because you haven't given the yeast enough time to compact down. :thumb: :thumb: Some yeast also compact better than others.

 

[Steve-h71]

Hi Gray, I did think this, but surely if I sugar prime the bottles for secondary fermentation then surely I am always going to get sediment of some level. Having a virtually perfectly clear beer and especially cider is something I have always been used to in commercial ciders and lagers, for me the whole point of homebrewing is to make a drink I like, similar to what I would pay 8x the price for, as well as being a lot of fun. So it is for this reason that I would like to find a cheap way of carbonating my brew, well until I have been doing it long enough to not be waiting for the only brew I have to clear and be drinkable :sulk: when I can afford a cornie or 2 then I will be fine.
So regardless of the reason I want to force carb my brew, what do you think of my idea, my only problem is it would cost a tenner plus to get a guage and bass fitting to be able to use the guage, so I am thinking I could just use the pen type pressure guage that I already have and add co2 a bit at a time until at the right psi, I dont suppose you know what the correct psi would be, I think its around 15 but not 100% sure.
Please excuse my tightness, I am on incapacity due to heart and lung problems, we also have 2 kids under 5 so money is especially tight, so that spare tenner would be better used buying apple juice for a TC :grin:
Cheers.
Steve.

 

[aamcle]

Im using a TAD/iBrew they work as do mini kegs with a SS car tyre valve fitted.

But getting the level of carbonation right is hit and miss just a matter of luck.

You need a tyre pressure tester as well.

ATB. aamcle

 

[graysalchemy]

Hi Gray, I did think this, but surely if I sugar prime the bottles for secondary fermentation then surely I am always going to get sediment of some level.

I take your point Steve, but if the yeast is allowed time to compact then careful pouring will result in crystal clear beer every time without any of the yeast leaving the bottle. And it will also save you a few quid as well.

If you don't want to use bottles then unless you are going to use a cornie or similar type of keg then you are going to struggle to get consistent lager or cider as you would get in a pub.

 

[Steve-h71]

Just call me fussy, I will learn... AA how do you get on with the ibrew, I see wilko has them for £45, thats pretty good, but to get extra bottles is quite expensive, although I guess 4 is enough. Trouble with that is unless you get multiple taps then you only have one choice of drink at a time. with my idea I could have several bottles in the fridge at the same time, giving me a good choice of drinks....

My biggest problem it the same thing that snores a lot and hogs the quilt ! ! ! it is convincing her that we really do need a cornie or better still 3 of them, one for my blonde ale I am brewing tomorrow, one for the cider and one for the raspberry cider (for want of a beter name), I have found a drink that I really like, I made the lowicz syrup brew, the best alco fruit drink I have ever tasted and 6% too... happy days, it will be wonderful on the few days of summer... :

 

[Fil]

I have some SS tyre valves Just for this purpose :) you will get some sediment still but to minimise it you can try transfering to a 2ndary fermentor or brite tank to clear down again after drawing off the sediment in the primary FV.

when filling with unconditioned beer squeeze the bottle so u can fill it to the brim, but when u punch in some co2 it will have headspace to expand into, otherwise u will need to let it stand and then vent off the lighter air u let in to stop it oxidising the beer.

drill your cap holes from the inside (easier to clean any burrs)

and check a conditioning chart for ideal pressure/temps to set and maintain.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 7178,d.ZG4

 

[Steve-h71]

Hi Fil, I was thinking of clearing with finnings or even filtering it to get it as clear as possible. I understand that the SS valves are much better, but surely if I sanitize the valves then there shouldnt be a problem with the rubber, or am I missing something ?? The SS are just soooo expensive, I have a friend that has a part worn tyre place and could possibly get a load of normal valves for nothing, cant get cheaper than that.... Thanks for the chart too, thats great.
I think this is a good solution to the carbonation problem as I dont need to have a second fridge, there is plenty of room in the fridge to store several bottles, I take it you can lay the bottles down with the valve on (maybe not for the rubber valves). One day when money is better I will have a dedicated fridge and a couple or three cornies....

 

[Steve-h71]

Fil, Can I ask what bulbs you use, are all co2 bulbs suitable or does it need to be "food grade",,,,, :

 

[jim80]

I've tried this - taking beer from a barrel, putting it in 1 litre PET bottles then pressurising with an old sodastream machine with a tyre valve adapter pipe attached to the metal pipe that would normally go inside the sodastream bottle - I just removed the clear plastic front cover.
I'm not sure I'd recommend that setup, but the requisite bits were getting chucked out anyway....
I used stainless tyre valves in the PET bottle tops, but I'd not worry to much if they were not since they don't need to stay on all that long.
It works, I unscientifically apply pressure until the PET bottle starts to expand about as much as I think it can take (I ran an air horn on my pushbike at 100 psi in one of those bottles and it was fine).
Then stick it in the fridge for 1/2 a day or more, remove the cap with the tyre valve and replace it with an ordinary one.
I don't do it all that often, generally when I want to take some beer to a party or festival.
In fact, I have one left over from one in August in the fridge, perhaps in the interests of science I should try it?

 

[jim80]

Just make sure that bike c02 adapter does not dump the entire contents of a cylinder in one go, like those pin adapters for barrels do!
I've not blown up a bottle full of beer yet using the button on the top of the sodastream, but I really do not want to.
I've heard that they normally develop a small leak before blowing up, but even that would spread beer a long way, and I wouldn't want to be testing this hearsay in any case.
I have blown them up when making meths rockets (ahem) out of them, so they will do so if you get really silly with them, I know that.

 

[jim80]

That old beer in the fridge is OK, by the way. I was going to chuck it out without trying it, but It's good enough to drink as it turns out, more by luck than judgement I would think.
I'd still only view it as being a "drink in 3 or 4 days" sort of thing myself, the ones I have from that brew I put in glass bottles are far nicer.

 

[Steve-h71]

The tyre inflators are a push button unit so you put what you want in, it has a button/valve I believe.
Can I ask how long it takes for it to carp the bottle, I was thinking around 3 pints in a 2L bottle, that would give around 300ml of gas space (obviously fill the bottle with brew to the 3 pint mark and then squeeze the bottle to remove the air and fit the cap, then add the co2. Is it a case of gas today for drinking tomorrow, in which case it would bottle and fridge in the morning, gas in the evening and drink the nextevening... Sounds like a plan :party:

 

[nobyipa]

i have always used mine as a soda stream substitute works well





get about 6 litres of fizz out of a canister

in a 2 litre pet bottle you put in a litre and a half squeeze the air out then put the cap on whilst it is squashed
invert the bottle the push your co2 canister on forcing co2 through the liquid whilst it is upside down
then into the fridge for an hour o so
i make up fizzy water with mine not done beer with em yet

 

[Fil]

my co2 is via a big bottle and an air tools tyre valve adaptor.. which is great as i set the reg to the desiered psi ..

im filling my bottles via a keg and tap, and using co2 to maintain condition of brite beer.

filtering beer is a real pita i tried it once with a paper wine filter - Never again, and then once more between 2 cornys with 2 x 10" filter cartridges inline 5 micron followed by 1 micron which needed progressive co2 psi increases til the filter seals leaked and filled the spare room with atomised beer!!

imho u cant beat patience and gravity to settle/clear beer.. if using finings your transfering to 2ndary first, add patience for a week or 2 and the finnings wont be needed..

if decanting into a cask finnings serve a purpose aiding rapid settling after moving otherwise i would give em a miss..

 

[DanT]

Try double dropping maybe? Get a second fermenting bucket and after primary, siphon it into there rather than going straight to keg or bottle, leave it another 2 weeks then bottle or keg for conditioning after that. That can help reduce sediment. A friend of mine just gave me a bottle of double dropped raspeberry light ale and there was barely anything at the bottom of the bottle.

 

[pogierob]

Sounds like you are just going the hard way round.

Keg it, let it clear then use
A counter pressure bottle filler.

Boom!!! Beer on tap AND clear bottled beer.

 

[Steve-h71]

Ok, So I have come to realise that there are quick ways and proper ways of doing things, I wanted quick results, but I was also doubting my abilities, I opened a bottle of my first cider a couple of weeks ago, it was a bit early, and not seeing the carbonation I was hoping for make me doubt my ability to get it right. I added more sugar to the bottles and tried one again the other night, BOOM, not massive carbonation but for the short time since adding more sugar there was a good amount of bubbles, I was really pleased with the results.
My biggest problem with the cider was how strong it was, it worked out about 7.5%, Blew my flipping head off. too strong really, but this was due to me doubting myself as usual, I was so worried that the TC wouldnt be very strong that I added far too much sugar to it. So the next brew of TC will be NO SUGAR, just the sugar from the apple juice and the added suar for priming, thats it simples.
Maybe I am actually learning, lets hope so as I am doing my first all grain next week, bit premature but there is only one way to learn...

 

[Dads_Ale]

I find that with my bottled beers using about 100g of priming sugar (batch prime in 27lts) I get good carbonation within 2 weeks of storage at room temperature. I prefer highly carbonated beers so leave them at room temp a little longer. I only leave a small air gap in the bottles and have not as yet (touch wood) had any burst bottles. Also with S04 yeast I can get pretty much all of the beer out of the bottle without disturbing the sediment. I gave some bottles away to my workmates at Christmas and they were also impressed that the yeast stayed in the bottle.
A previous cider I made I added too much apple juice as priming and when I opened the first bottle after a few weeks the fountain went 3 feet in the air.

 

[Brewberoza]

Carbonating with a bicycle pump?!? There is such a thing as beverage grade CO2. This is CO2 processed to remove impuruties including potentially toxic ones. Now maybe this is just some evil scheme that the Big Gas Companies concocted to get us to pay more but I would urge caution with this.