Cheap cider like beverage, is it likely to work?

[ericmark]

My wife came home with a beer kit for me, and cider kit for her, on making her cider kit, the can contents were like water, not the treacle like consistency of the beer kits, plus more expensive.

So looked at a bottle of cordial concentrate and wondered what is the difference?

Cordial concentrate says mix 1 to 19, so if I put 1 litre of cordial concentrate to 19 of water, add say 1.5 kg of sugar, and some yeast from my beer, what will I get?

Has anyone tried it?

 

[Oneflewover]

Does cordial not have preservatives in it that will inhibit fermentation?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

As @Oneflewover said avoid cordial as there is a good chance it will have preservative in it.

How to make turbo cider -

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/how-to-make-turbo-cider.69059/

 

[ericmark]

You are correct, just read the bottle from Tesco and yes preservative in it. It does however seem to be fermenting if a little slow, so need to wait and see if I get sweet fruit juice or cider?

 

[Berry454]

You can indeed use fruit cordials which contain *some* preservatives but not others. Potassium sorbate is a huge NO and will not work. It will slow down fermentation to a point that won't even be worth doing. That's assuming it doesn't stop it out right.

Now sodium metabisulfite, this one can work fine. Making old school cider from real apples the must would be treated with sodium metabisulfite to kill off wild yeast strains from the must before topping up and fermentation. This can cause a slow start to fermentation but it won't stop your fermentation and things should catch up fast after a day or two.

So basically, yes you can ferment juices and cordials with sodium metabisulfite but absolutely not with potassium sorbate.

Just expect a fairly slow start. Or alternatively hit it with a yeast bomb!!

 

[The Baron]

Stick some yeast nutrient in to help the yeast through

 

[Tanglefoot]

I used Kedem concentrated grape juice (Sainsbury's) in a recent batch of elderflower wine. Had some reservations about using it due to Metabisulphate but it fermented out fine with no problems.
I think by the time you open the bottle the MB is little more than a trace, having done its job as a preservative.
Was reassured by fact that
when starting the must I used one campden tablet per gallon to kill off any wild yeast leaving for 24hrs before pitching wine yeast, which is standard practice (as noted above by Berry454 ).

 

[ericmark]

As you all have predicted it is fermenting, but very slow, setting off a beer today, so will likely bottle both at the same time, I have two fermentor's so I can spare one for a time with a slow ferment.

 

[Berry454]

As you all have predicted it is fermenting, but very slow, setting off a beer today, so will likely bottle both at the same time, I have two fermentor's so I can spare one for a time with a slow ferment.

Likely potassium sorbate. Sounds like the yeast is having trouble creating a big enough colony to ferment out the alcohol hence the slow ferment.

Try adding a yeast bomb to kick start things.

Just put a couple TSP of yeast and nutrient in a jug with a little water. Add 3-4 tbsp of sugar and keep it at 25-30 degrees c for 24 hours.

After 24 hours throw it into the fermenter and prepare for a foamy reaction.

 

[ericmark]

It is slowly speeding up, but very slowly, but did not have any stock of yeast to start with, so de-cantered last bottle of beer which had more yeast in to the rest, and put in the dregs, so not that much yeast to start with, I have the yeast from a beer kit, I could only uses half for each, but since speeding up a bit now, I'll leave it for a bit.

 

[ericmark]

Well I did share the packet of yeast, and the result was near enough instant, now bubbling away as expected, in future I will ferment the sugar then add flavour.

Thank you all for your help.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

in future I will ferment the sugar then add flavour.

The preservative on that label are commonly used, i did a Ribena wine when i first started it took three weeks to get to .1020 and stalled soon after it ended up getting poured down the sink, i member back in the day a members posted "when it comes to making wine the best place for bottles of cordial and squash is on the supermarket shelf" i couldn't agree more.

 

[Berry454]

"when it comes to making wine the best place for bottles of cordial and squash is on the supermarket shelf" i couldn't agree more.

I really don't agree with that Chippy. The problem here is not cordial or squash. The problem is specifically the preservative potassium sorbate.

Plenty of cordials just contain sodium meta (not an issue) and a lot of the more expensive cordials don't contain any preservatives whatsoever.

I just finished bottling a cider made from Bottlegreen Elderflower Pomegranate cordial off the shelf from Sainsbury's. No preservatives whatsoever and fermented from 1.055 down to 1.000 in 3 days.

The problem is the typical Robinson's cordials (the cheap crap) which contains potassium sorbate.

Plus the cheap cordials taste like synthetic crap anyways. Not much point in using them. The more expensive ones £3-£5 a bottle usually are good.

P.S the bottlegreen Elderflower cordial is insanely good at making elderflower champagne. A 50cl bottle is enough to make 5lt of elderflower champagne without needing to mess with dried or fresh flowers.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I really don't agree with that Chippy. The problem here is not cordial or squash. The problem is specifically the preservative potassium sorbate.

I did say -

The preservative on that label are commonly used, i did a Ribena wine when i first started it took three weeks to get to .1020 and stalled soon after it ended up getting poured down the sink, i member back in the day a members posted

No preservative no problem!

 

[IceQueen]

i remember reading that you need to boil the ribena stuff befor toget rid of the preservatives. wildbrew would know.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

i remember reading that you need to boil the ribena stuff befor toget rid of the preservatives. wildbrew would know.

I did that for 15 minutes as suggested in guides back then it didn't work.

 

[Berry454]

i remember reading that you need to boil the ribena stuff befor toget rid of the preservatives. wildbrew would know.

Boiling the juice will definitely work to remove the sodium metabisulfite but it will unfortunately not remove the potassium sorbate, which is the main problem here.

 

[ericmark]

Mixed two ciders, one too dry, and other the one with potassium sorbate in it too sweet, together, and wife likes the balance, so sorted. But in the future will ensure no potassium sorbate.

 

[Berry454]

Mixed two ciders, one too dry, and other the one with potassium sorbate in it too sweet, together, and wife likes the balance, so sorted. But in the future will ensure no potassium sorbate.

A 50cl bottle of bottlegreen Elderflower and pomegranate cordial with 2lt apple juice thrown in a DJ makes a great cider.

Fruity and floral

 

[ericmark]

Well ready for round two, I bottled a beer, then used the fomenter without cleaning out with just sugar and water, and it is fermenting well, idea is when next beer is bottled to transfer the sugar water into a clean fermenter to finish off, then add flavours.

The main concern is with ciders to stop it fermenting once the dryness wanted is reached, I tried fermenting apples in the past, and far too dry, stopped first attempt from getting too dry by storing in the fridge, but limited room, idea is to have cider type alcohol for my wife at Christmas, the meat not used at last BBQ resulted in needing freezer, and since fridge/freezer this left an empty fridge, but would prefer to not use electric to store it.

I am considering using demijohns to add flavours, so one fermenter should do around 5 or 6 demijohns each with different flavour. But all new to me, so open for ideas.