Carbonation questions

[Llanbrewer]

Please forgive me if these questions seem idiotic, or have been answered elsewhere. I've gone back to home brewing after 30 odd years, and the basic keg kit seems to have changed little. I've got a King Keg (as yet unused) and it has a s30 valve which connects to what look like the old Sparklets C02 bulbs.

I've tried this on a dry basis and the bulb just discharges instantly, and less than 10g of CO2 does little for the pressure in a 40 litre void. I appreciate that it is different when the vessel if full, but my basic point is that there is going to be limited carbonation once the keg is down to half empty. My supplier offers a converter valve to be able to use a Sodastream gas bottle.

A cursory Google suggests that this is a rechargeable cylinder, costing about £12 per refill, and with a 60 litre carbonation capacity. My guestimate is that with beer that is already partially carbonated, this would be about 3 kegs worth. Is this a route worth going down? And, is there some form of regulator to enable one to keep things at a steady 12-15 psi?

The other big question is whether there is an option for going for bigger bottles and high quality pressure regulation, with a view to upgrading to Corny kegs later on once stocks build up? The ability to vary carbonation levels according to the type of beer is important to me.

What I am really looking for is an upgrade path, whereby early kit does not have to be junked.

If these questions have already been answered, then the link would be gratefully received.

 

[ravey]

I've looked at this in the past, most search results seem to be people looking for a solution, or old posts without the picture hosting. Try:

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=70066
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3386

I don't know what kind thread is on the s30 valve, so when I searched for "cornelius keg post adapter" I didn't know if any of the results were useful.

I did come across an s30 to widget system which is mentioned here also, which says "It allows easy conversion from S30 to Widget system or other gas systems, connector will fit on standard S30 valve with or without Pin breaker" but I don't know what "other gas systems" includes. A cheaper option might be this.

 

[wfr42]

https://youtu.be/LOq6N59HTjo

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOq6N59HTjo&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

Gives a good overview of how to use a barrel.

You can prime it differently (not sure if it is possible to prime enough for a lager) and re-prime it if/when it goes flat instead of using co2 bulbs or equivalent.

 

[Bigcol49]

The other big question is whether there is an option for going for bigger bottles and high quality pressure regulation, with a view to upgrading to Corny kegs later on once stocks build up?

Hi!
If you want to get a "pub" gas bottle and regulator there is a bit of kit that will allow you to attach it to the KK S30 valve.
http://brewingathome.co.uk/product/midget-widget-world-universal-barrel-hose/
You would need to find a push-fit connector for the 9mm tubing to the 3/8" gas line from the regulator, but once connected the pressure gauge on the regulator gives you an indication of the pressure within the barrel.

 

[Hoppyland]

Yes, as you'd expect, the bigger cylinder you go for then the cheaper the CO2 is per unit volume. Also more versatile for upgrading.
Have a look at this (which gives links to suppliers):

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65081

Oh, and you'll also need to buy a regulator - so the initial outlay ain't that cheap, but if you're using quite a bit of CO2 I found it pays for itself many times over. You can also use it for purging (putting a CO2 blanket over newly-transferred beer) which I always do. This achieves 2 things: it maintains quality by keeping oxygen away from the brew and, importantly, hugely reduces the chance of spoilage by aerobic fungi or bacteria.

 

[Llanbrewer]

Yes, as you'd expect, the bigger cylinder you go for then the cheaper the CO2 is per unit volume. Also more versatile for upgrading.
Have a look at this (which gives links to suppliers):

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65081

Oh, and you'll also need to buy a regulator - so the initial outlay ain't that cheap, but if you're using quite a bit of CO2 I found it pays for itself many times over. You can also use it for purging (putting a CO2 blanket over newly-transferred beer) which I always do. This achieves 2 things: it maintains quality by keeping oxygen away from the brew and, importantly, hugely reduces the chance of spoilage by aerobic fungi or bacteria.

Thanks, that's very helpful. It so happens that one of my Friday night pub crew is the recently retired manager of an Air Products site.......

I'll see if he has any input into quantities of less than a thousand bottles.

 

[peebee]

...
I'll see if he has any input into quantities of less than a thousand bottles.

You have Beer Gas Cymru just up the road at Ruabon. They sell to pubs so don't baffle them with home brew questions :wha:. Friendly bunch though (including the dog, but perhaps it's a little too friendly?). You want a 6.35Kg cylinder and remember to pay upfront for the rental (its embarrassing getting reminders sent that must cost more to post than they are trying to collect). Less than 20 quid for your full cylinder and rental for a year.

You'll need your own regulator; the Web site suggests they can be got from them (2nd-hand) but they never have any in.

http://www.beergascymru.co.uk/

 

[peebee]

As I'm having a helpful moment...

I've got a post about regulators here: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=64248.

You might not care to go down the "aquarium" route and will choose the more popular "Neanderthal" welders regulator. If you do have the classier aquarium regulator, they are fixed output so you'll need something like these: http://www.shako-online-sales.com/frl/regulators/miniature-regulator-nr200-01-nr200-02.

I have the 0-30PSI NR200 but haven't tried them yet. Very good looking ("diaphragm" type, more precise) and incredibly cheap. I use their NUR regulators but they are tricky to use ("relieving" regulator).

 

[Llanbrewer]

You have Beer Gas Cymru just up the road at Ruabon. They sell to pubs so don't baffle them with home brew questions :wha:. Friendly bunch though (including the dog, but perhaps it's a little too friendly?). You want a 6.35Kg cylinder and remember to pay upfront for the rental (its embarrassing getting reminders sent that must cost more to post than they are trying to collect). Less than 20 quid for your full cylinder and rental for a year.

You'll need your own regulator; the Web site suggests they can be got from them (2nd-hand) but they never have any in.

http://www.beergascymru.co.uk/

Thanks - that's very helpful.

 

[peebee]

Thanks - that's very helpful.

Ah... I may be missing an opportunity here? I'm well turned over to the "aquarium" tackle approach to CO2 management. If I haven't convinced you I've got my old "welders'" regulator and 4-port manifold available for cheap. Send me a private message if interested.

(EDIT: This sparked me off to finish another post on this "CO2 management" subject which you can find here: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=634452#post634452).