Bubble size

[UKSkydiver]

I'm getting a bit disappointed with my brews.

I may not be describing correctly, but the best way would be to say the bubbles seem too big.

I dont think I have a problem with carbonation per se. Brews seem sufficiently, (if not overly sometimes), carbed.

I've read a bit on here and some suggest either flaked barley, wheat or oats to improve head retention, but I dont think I have a problem with head retention, as such.

It 'feels' like the bubbles are too big. When you take a sip, you can feel the CO2 escaping and inflating your mouth. It also feels a bit harsh.

To illustrate the point (and clearly I'm not suggesting my brews are anywhere near commercial standard) here are a couple of side by side pics of one of mine on the left and a commercial bottled beer on the right. Clearly there are other processes at play and the commercial one isnt bottle conditioned etc etc . . .

I had a friend's home brew recently, bottled IIRC in May, and it didn't display the issue I describe / experience. That said, he's got about 100 brews under his belt compared to my 9.

I've also read that bubbles tend to become smaller with age. Maybe I'm not leaving them long enough.

The other thing is that I use golden granulated cane sugar for priming. We dont normally have standard white table sugar in. SWMBO is a bit of a stickler for less processed stuff. Could that have an effect.

As ever, thanks for taking the time to read and thanks in advance for any of your wise words.

Cheers

 

[kelper]

How much sugar are you using to prime? What process are you using to brew? What recipe? Does the foam/head remain until the last sip?

Good question; good photos!

 

[terrym]

I read on here some time ago that the length of conditioning time can determine the size of bubbles.

 

[UKSkydiver]

How much sugar are you using to prime?

Brown Ale primed at 4g/litre
ESB primed at 4g/litre
Porter primed at 3.6g/litre
Saison was originally undercarbed at 3g/litre, but I ended up adding 2-3g per 500ml as it's supposed to have some ridiculously high vols. I actually think that the saison doesn't exhibit the issue.
Gem clone primed at . . . well, my notes say 0.4-0.5g, but that's clearly bobbins, so I assume I meant 4-5g/litre
I don't have exact notes on my 80/' but it look like it might have been 2-3g / litre

What process are you using to brew? What recipe?

Here is a list of my Brewdays

Does the foam/head remain until the last sip?

Head retention I would say is ok to acceptable . I certainly wouldn't suggest brews are flat.

Good question; good photos!

Thank you, I just want to improve my brews.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Your bubble can only be 6 from tomorrow

 

[Pennine]

I almost always prime with 5-6g/l and will typically go with 60g per 10 litre batch for ease. or if a saison 70g per 10l. I use white sugar which should be exactly the same as the golden one. So I would say start there, but if you prefer them carbonated where they are at I wouldn't worry too much about the bubble size if you are enjoying them.

 

[samale]

I almost always prime with 5-6g/l and will typically go with 60g per 10 litre batch for ease. or if a saison 70g per 10l. I use white sugar which should be exactly the same as the golden one. So I would say start there, but if you prefer them carbonated where they are at I wouldn't worry too much about the bubble size if you are enjoying them.

That seems alot for me. Carbonation is a mind field. I have noticed a difference between beers I cold crash compared to beers brewed at room temp. I normally go 80g for 38 bottles packaged. The Saison I sent you I went 120g.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Not sure of all the factors in play here, but my understanding from a physics perspective is that the bubble size in a foaming liquid is a result of the balance between the dissolved gas pressure (and type(s) of gas) versus the surface tension and viscosity of the fluid.
I guess that's why some types of commercial beer can be 'carbed' with a mix of co2 and nitrogen because the latter gives smaller bubbles that result in a creamier mouth feel.
At a guess I'd say your bigger bubbles may indicate slightly lower viscosity than the commercial beer and from my own limited experience I can imagine that might change as you age the beer longer. It could also be that your beer has slightly higher dissolved gas pressure, or is producing bubbles faster (possible because the commercial beer is highly filtered and therefore has fewer microscopic particles upon which bubbles start to form)

 

[terrym]

At a guess I'd say your bigger bubbles may indicate slightly lower viscosity than the commercial beer and from my own limited experience I can imagine that might change as you age the beer longer.

Seriously?
Enough to make the difference between big bubbles and little ones?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Seriously?
Enough to make the difference between big bubbles and little ones?

well either that or the surface tension

 

[terrym]

well either that or the surface tension

Or, how about yeast cells in suspension, being the fundamental and in many cases probably only the only difference between filtered beer from a commercial brewery and homebrewed beer? But for homebrew the longer you condition and store it, the fewer cells in suspension, and therefore the fewer sites for gaseous CO2 to form as it comes out of solution. Which makes the dissolution process more homogenous.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Bubbles in mineral water are pretty big though?

 

[terrym]

Bubbles in mineral water are pretty big though?

Maybe. But there's all sorts of sticky sugars and alcohol etc in beer which will change the mechanism for forming and sustaining bubbles.
Anyway its all speculation at present until someone produces a peer reviewed scientific paper on the subject.

 

[kelper]

Next time you bottle, prime some at different levels of g/L and label them accordingly. I think you will enjoy beer less carbonated.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Next time you bottle, prime some at different levels of g/L and label them accordingly. I think you will enjoy beer less carbonated.

^^ what he said :-)

 

[kelper]

Or buy a minikeg and experiment with different CO2 pressures.

 

[terrym]

Or buy a minikeg and experiment with different CO2 pressures.

The problem with basic minikegs is that you are limited to about 3g sugar per litre as I have found out, unless of course you buy a top mounted tap with CO2 bulb. And if you use the kegs repurposed from shop/brewery bought beer there is a likelihood that after more than one use your beer will have a metallic taint, again as I and others have found. I have been running a little trial on several repurposed kegs I was given and was initially quite enthusiastic but after getting the weird taste and one that lost pressure am going back to all bottles. All that said the Dark Farm type kegs should be much better I guess, but they come at a large premium which I decided I am not willing to pay.

 

[kelper]

You can get a minikeg, complete with CO2 regulator, for £80 but need to get the CO2 bulbs as well. It's really nice on a hot day to have a wee keg by the pool. I haven't got a pool yet!

https://amazon.co.uk/BACOENG-Pressurized-Growler-Kegerator-Regulator/dp/B072C26ZFV

You can use one tap and regulator for several kegs.

 

[Pete9586]

I brew mostly stouts, porters and IPA's.
I have found that the longer i leave my bottles conditioning, the tighter and smaller the bubbles become with better head retention as well.
I think time is the magic formula for this and so much more.

 

[Buffers brewery]

This probably won’t help answer the OP but....

...the first pic is a Yorkshire bitter (4.7% ABV) 4 weeks after carbonation. The second is a Mild (5.5% ABV) 1 week after carbonation. Both made with same water treatment (CRS). Both served at the same temperature. This bubble stuff is more complex than you think. While @The-Engineer-That-Brews is correct in saying viscosity and surface tension are the key players in bubble formation, the ingredients in the beer will make subtle changes in those properties and without actually taking some physical measurements it’s impossible to say what’s happening. Ageing will also change these properties. I guess what I’m saying is there are too many variables.