Brewzilla Gen 4 advice and experiences

[Ross1974]

So I've returned, and in process of a refund on, my Grainfather S40. Thanks to Gareth @brew2bottle for helping me out with that and making it as painless as possible, with the exception of a couple of ditched brews.

I am now on the lookout for a new, and hopefully more enjoyable and controlled brewday experience.

Having had a look at whats on offer and whats at the right price point, the Brewzilla Gen 4 looks to have the features that should make for a more controlled brewday.

I've a few questions to those of you who have used, or are currently using this unit.

1. PID control. To use or not to use? P&I seems to be the best option, not using derivative is ok given the heat mass of the wort.
   1. Settings. I've read various & seen various settings. What works for you. Is it beer type dependent?
2. RAPT Bluetooth thermometer. Worth the extra?
3. Neoprene sleeve? Anyone use this to help control temp swings?

Looking at pricing there are a few places out there that stock them, including some of our sponsors so I 'm on the lookout for a good deal.

Any one have any opinions to share?

Thanks.
Ross

 

[Agentgonzo]

Neoprene sleeve? Anyone use this to help control temp swings?

I have a g30 with the neoprene sleeve/coat on the kettle and the fermenter. I like them both.

On the kettle, it prevents you accidentally scalding yourself as much, reduces the heat loss to the environment (lower cost to both heat up and do the boil - I use 70% power for the same level of boil as without the coat) and this is even more evident if you brew outside in the wind.

For the fermenter, it helps reduce temp swings a bit, but not a lot. I don't have a fermentation fridge and use the garage+heat belt+neoprene jacket and it's good enough.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@Ross1974

I've followed this thread about the brewzilla 4 from the start, 24 pages currently. Make your own mind up!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/brewzilla-gen4-discussion-tips-talk.702436/
It completely puts me off getting a model 4 of any size. The 3 and the clones don't seem to have the same issues.

I'd look out for a 65litre model 3 or a klarstein and then consider pimping it up with a smartpid, whirlpools etc and you'll learn with your system as you go.

The tech and ideas of the 4 are attractive but in practice it seems to be quite difficult.

 

[Ross1974]

@Ross1974

I've followed this thread about the brewzilla 4 from the start, 24 pages currently. Make your own mind up!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/brewzilla-gen4-discussion-tips-talk.702436/
It completely puts me off getting a model 4 of any size. The 3 and the clones don't seem to have the same issues.

I'd look out for a 65litre model 3 or a klarstein and then consider pimping it up with a smartpid, whirlpools etc and you'll learn with your system as you go.

The tech and ideas of the 4 are attractive but in practice it seems to be quite difficult.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read through and see what issues they're having

 

[MikeB.]

Hi @Ross1974 what size brewing system are you looking at?

 

[dcbrookes]

There are plenty of armchair critics of the Gen 4 around - most of them have never used one. I have been using one for almost a year and have produced around 25 brews on it. I do not now use the PID option which I found led to temperature overshoots. I use the built in temperature sensor, with the power throttled back to 400 watts or so during the mash. I recirculate with the pump valve about half open and I use a home made re-circulation manifold to distribute the wort evenly over the mash bed. I have the heat exchange disk and the Bluetooth thermometer - I use the HED but I rely on the built in temperature sensor and use the BT thermometer in the mash for information but not to control the temperature. It took a bit of trial and error to get to my present workflow, but I am getting efficiencies in the low 80%'s and, more importantly, my mash temperature stays within 0.5 C of target. I now prefer the BZ Gen 4 to the GF G40 I had before - like all machinery it has its foibles, but I do not believe that any AIO works perfectly out of the box, and the Gen 4 offers a good balance of cost to performance.

 

[MashBag]

but I do not believe that any AIO works perfectly out of the box,

That is a very good point. I have a BM which is long way from what turned up in the box.

Everyone will brew different beers in their own way, one size fits nobody

 

[MashBag]

To answer the op. Neoprene /insulate absolutely.

I have a simple system for brewing so blue*anything*, wi*anything* or inter*anything*. Don't figure at all and never will.

 

[Speccy]

I have the heat exchange disk and the Bluetooth thermometer - I use the HED but I rely on the built in temperature sensor and use the BT thermometer in the mash for information but not to control the temperature.

Interesting! I've just taken delivery of the Bluetooth thermometer and HED myself, but I was planning to use the BT thermometer to control the mash temperature, as per the advice from Kegland. Any reason you're doing it the other way round?

I've also got one of these on the way via Aliexpress, which I'm planning to try in place of the top screen: Sergeant Sparge Head - Wort Spreader and Aerator

To the original poster, I think the Brewzilla Gen 4 is excellent, and I've made some great beer with it. Only area of concern has been my efficiencies, which have been a bit hit and miss, but I'm hoping the above accessories will sort that out.

 

[dcbrookes]

Interesting! I've just taken delivery of the Bluetooth thermometer and HED myself, but I was planning to use the BT thermometer to control the mash temperature, as per the advice from Kegland. Any reason you're doing it the other way round?

I get more consistent temperatures the way I do it. I found that using the BT thermometer to control the mash led to temperature overshoots. Try both ways and see which works best for you.

 

[dcbrookes]

Only area of concern has been my efficiencies, which have been a bit hit and miss, but I'm hoping the above accessories will sort that out.

Recirculation using just the supplied hose is very inefficient as you really have no way of ensuring that the wort percolates through every part of the grain bed. I use a home made manifold (based on the SS Brewtech design) and I am sure this improves efficiency.

 

[LeeH]

Leaving an inch of water on the grain bed is better than a manifold I found when I sparged back in the day.

So the hose is perfect for the job IMO.

 

[Ross1974]

Hi @Ross1974 what size brewing system are you looking at?

Probably the smaller unit, 35 litre? Unless there was a compelling and financial reason to go for the larger unit.

 

[Barone]

There are plenty of armchair critics of the Gen 4 around - most of them have never used one. I have been using one for almost a year and have produced around 25 brews on it. I do not now use the PID option which I found led to temperature overshoots. I use the built in temperature sensor, with the power throttled back to 400 watts or so during the mash. I recirculate with the pump valve about half open and I use a home made re-circulation manifold to distribute the wort evenly over the mash bed. I have the heat exchange disk and the Bluetooth thermometer - I use the HED but I rely on the built in temperature sensor and use the BT thermometer in the mash for information but not to control the temperature. It took a bit of trial and error to get to my present workflow, but I am getting efficiencies in the low 80%'s and, more importantly, my mash temperature stays within 0.5 C of target. I now prefer the BZ Gen 4 to the GF G40 I had before - like all machinery it has its foibles, but I do not believe that any AIO works perfectly out of the box, and the Gen 4 offers a good balance of cost to performance.

I liked your observations... does the heat exchanger disc help retain the hop trub?

 

[allotment_fox]

I bit the bullet and got the Gen 4 with a bit of arm twisting a Birthday present from Mrs Allotmentfox bless her some Bartering cost me 11 nights holiday in Cyprus that starts on Saturday . We Used BKT and would say they gave me a first class service added the jacket and extra heat exchange bottom plate, left off the BT thermometer. and use a glass manual one to check. I use the PID for mashing and used the David Heath settings on his you tube video. I also use the pump with control of the tap rather than it pulsing on and off. did not bother using the top plate and plan to get sparge head from Alli Express about £12
So far I love it but still early days I also made a storage box from plywood a bit like a teachest to keep her safe in the brewshed

 

[Brew_DD2]

I bit the bullet and got the Gen 4 with a bit of arm twisting a Birthday present from Mrs Allotmentfox bless her some Bartering cost me 11 nights holiday in Cyprus that starts on Saturday . We Used BKT and would say they gave me a first class service added the jacket and extra heat exchange bottom plate, left off the BT thermometer. and use a glass manual one to check. I use the PID for mashing and used the David Heath settings on his you tube video. I also use the pump with control of the tap rather than it pulsing on and off. did not bother using the top plate and plan to get sparge head from Alli Express about £12
So far I love it but still early days I also made a storage box from plywood a bit like a teachest to keep her safe in the brewshed

Always been very impressed with their service too.

 

[dcbrookes]

I liked your observations... does the heat exchanger disc help retain the hop trub?

I get almost no hop trub as the bottom screen fits tightly (too tightly to begin with - BKT had to get me a replacement which fits perfectly).

 

[Ross1974]

So the new gen 4 brewzilla arrived last night.

I did some trials with water to see how the temp control worked out.

Observations

1. With the HE plate installed, it heats up much quicker than I expected.
2. It maintained a temperature within 0.5 degrees of the setpoint, so thats good, although I think I can get it better with tuning the PID.

Got it set up with RAPT eventually, even though it took a good few attempts. I thin the secret to avoiding the "the specified device is not a rapt brewzilla" error is to just be patient. Once its powered up, and connected to the network, give it a few minutes to register itself on RAPT before trying to connect.

I also picked up the bluetooth RAPT temperature probe, so I'll see how that compares with the inbuilt unit.

 

[Barone]

Help !.... 2nd mashing and the wort level rises until it overflows... the pump stops and stops working... after 30 minutes...
What do I do to prevent this from happening?

 

[Ross1974]

Help !.... 2nd mashing and the wort level rises until it overflows... the pump stops and stops working... after 30 minutes...
What do I do to prevent this from happening?

Not used mine yet for actual brewing, but that doesnt sound right. Whats the level in the pipe before the boil?
Still to check, but I think the pump is not rated for boiling wort. Might just need to reset it. Is there not a button underneath?