Brewlabs Yeast Slants - Pitching Viability and Starter size

[mr_spin]

I've bought some Brewlabs yeast slants but I'm trying to decide how to step up starter-wise.

Does anyone know what the approx number of cells are left after doing the initial 300ml starter as recommended by them?

I'm trying to calculate how big the next starter size needs to be to produce approx 200 billion cells needed for my 25L SG 1048 ale..

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[Aleman]

Work on the 10 times principle so the next size up from 300ml is 3L.

Calculation is difficult and makes loads of assumptions, the only real way to be sure is to get you yeast suspended in the 300 ml starter . . . draw off 1ml use serial dilution to reduce the cell numbers and then use a microscope and haemocytometer slide to do some cell counts . . . then you know how many cells you have in your 300ml . . . and can determine the 'correct' size to step up

 

[mr_spin]

many thanks Aleman - so it looks like a 3L starter will produce what I need.

So, say I wanted to step up to a 3 litre starter as you recommend, could I 'borrow' 1 litre and split this down into 4 smaller batches for later use, and then pitch the remaining 2 litres into my 25L brew? Would there be enough yeast in the 2 litres to ferment the 25 Litres? :wha:

 

[Good Ed]

Spin, I've just used a F40 Scottish & Newcastle slope fro Brewlab. After preparing the starter the normal way, I stepped up to 1L with 150g spraymalt, and after that had fermented out (4 days) I split 3 ways. Used one in a brew on Saturday (23L) and it fired up beautifully within a few hours and was firing out of the airlock on all cylinders.

Aleman made another helpful suggestion, that if you add some cooled wort from 45mins into your boil to your starter, by the time you are ready to pitch the yeasties are rearing to go.

Good luck

 

[mr_spin]

thanks Ed. will give it a try. Did you store the splits in the fridge and then remove one on brewday before pitching?

One of my aims is to reduce the lag time which looks like what you've done.

 

[Good Ed]

Yes I store in the fridge in 500ml plastic bottles, topped up with cooled boiled water. I take mine out of the fridge the night before brewday to give it 24hrs to get to room temperature.

 

[mr_spin]

well I made my starter.. I boiled 300ml of water with 30g of dme. boiled for 10 mins. Cooled wort down and dropped a few mills into the slant tube, shook a little and poured back into the starter.

However I later realised of course some will have evaporated during the boil and I'm probably left with a (much!) higher gravity starter wort. Duh! :hmm: I hope those yeast cells have some strength!

 

[46.philh]

How are you getting with the splits Mr spin

 

[mr_spin]

How are you getting with the splits Mr spin

I've made a few so far. I ended up making a 3 litre TV3 starter and then split this into 6 500ml coke bottles. I've used a few and the rest are in the fridge.

 

[46.philh]

boiled 300ml of water with 30g of dme. boiled for 10 mins for the starter then leave for 48 hours ?

How much DME did you use for the next step up for 3 litre ?

 

[luckyeddie]

boiled 300ml of water with 30g of dme. boiled for 10 mins for the starter then leave for 48 hours ?

How much DME did you use for the next step up for 3 litre ?

Same proportion, i.e. 300g of DME. I'm not sure of the science, but the yeasties seem to like the 1040ish gravity. The fact that you have already 'used' 30g isn't going to make much of a difference here and there, because your 300ml of wort is probably now around 1012.

 

[mr_spin]

yep I used about 300g - aiming for circa 1040g

 

[46.philh]

Over on jims http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/liquid_yeast.htm small 250ml bottles are used ?

I am confused, I guess there is no right or wrong way of doing this. Maybe he pitches both bottles when brewing a 23ltr

 

[luckyeddie]

I think what he's actually done there is just propagated sufficient yeasties to split it six ways for future use. I'm guessing here but the next stage, a few days before brewday would be to sling one of the bottles into a carboy with a couple of litres of 1040 wort to make a starter.

I did something similar with WLP550 - I made 3 litres of starter and pitched two thirds of it, storing the rest in 4 grolsch bottles and refrigerating them. I have now used one of the first-generation offspring and made a 2 litre starter from it - it chewed its way through a 20 litre Belgian Blond wort in no time at all. The second first-generation pup is currently scaling up for its own day in the sun - probably Thursday - when I shall tell it to fetch me a Dubbel.

It's all down to economics - £6 for a Wyeast smackpack or a vial from White Labs is a lot of outlay to use once. I plan on not buying another WLP550 for at least a year. When I get down to the last bottle, I shall make another 4 from it - and so on through up to 4 generations.

 

[46.philh]

I do 23ltr Brews using the heated fridge for fermentation but occasionally (as I get less time for brew days) I am going to do a 23ltr FV and a 10ltr FV brew day.

Right here goes...

Brewlabs Yeast Slope....

Stage 1 – Yeast Starter
Small starter in a milk bottle first, 300ml water/30g light spraymalt & fermented for 2 days to "wake it up".

Stage 2 – Yeast Step up 3 Ltr
3 Ltr of water with 300g of Light Spray Malt for 4 days.

Stage 3 – Split.
Divided the yeast between Bottles and store in Fridge.
4 X 500ml and 4 250ml bottles.

Stage 4 – Yeast starter before Brew Day.
Remove from fridge in the morning and then in the evening 48 Hours before brew day make up a 300ml Yeast starter by
Pouring of most of the liquid away use the yeast to make 300ml yeast starter the same as done in stage 1 for a 23ltr Brew.

On brew day pour the 300ml straight into the FV with the wort.

For a 33ltr Brew length use a 500ml and 250ml bottle and add together to make a 500ml starter and use 300ml in 23ltr brew and 200ml in the 10ltr brew.

have I got it :clap: ??? or wrong

 

[Good Ed]

You're on the right track; when stepping up, and when the starter has finished and the yeast has settled from the wort, pour off the old wort and then add cooled boiled water (I use 200ml per split) and then divide into your bottles (so the size of your bottle is irrelevant). To split 12 ways you should be doing a 5L starter; I usually split 4 ways with a 2L starter, double that for a lager yeast.

A great tip from Aleman is that on brewday, after doing your starter, pour off the old wort and take some wort from 45mins into your boil, cool it to less than 25C and add it to your yeast, this gets them going again and you will find very low lag times.

Mr Malty's calculator is also very useful for starter sizes http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

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[Jon474]

It can easily get out of hand this yeast stuff though...

I made six batches of beer in March and used just one vial of WLP002 for the lot.

I started the original vial off in a two litre 1.035 mix of DME and let it ferment out completely. That gave me c 220 billion cells which at 6m cells per ml of hopped wort is more than enough to ferment out 25 litres.

After washing this once, I restarted the slurry with a litre of cooled wort from the copper and pitched the lot.

I saved the slurry from this batch of beer, washed it twice and split it two ways for the next two batches. Saved the resulting slurry, washed it twice and pitched into two more batches of beer (it's a Spring Thing...er, thing). Saved that, washed it twice...you get the picture.

No joke, I now have approximately four litres of good quality, clean, thick yeast slurry. Mr Malty says I need between 125 and 250ml of yeast slurry to get 25 litres of 1.048 hopped wort going. So from one tiny 50ml vial of White Labs yeast I now have enough for sixteen to thirty two batches of beer.

I've run out of places to keep it.

Now, obviously, its vitaility is dropping by 25-30% per week so it has a short shelf-life and I will probably ditch it after seven or eight generations, but it just goes to show how easy it is to be self-sufficient in yeast from a very modest start.

I love it.

Jon.

 

[morebeer]

: Some great information here.... I plan to make my first starter in the next few days. A couple of slants in the fridge and all bits ordered to make a stir plate. Ordered various flasks yesterday so raring to get stuck in.

 

[rpt]

: Some great information here.... I plan to make my first starter in the next few days. A couple of slants in the fridge and all bits ordered to make a stir plate. Ordered various flasks yesterday so raring to get stuck in.

What flasks have you ordered and have you made a start on a starter yet?

 

[morebeer]

:cry: Sadly, I have not made a start yet. I ordered all the parts to make a stir plate, which is up and running apart from adding the variable speed controller which is coming from China! I now with everything required to make agar slants apart from I am still waiting for my pressure cooker to arrive, today is their last day within the agreed delivery period, so fingers crossed. I have one of each 100ml, 250ml and 1lt conical flasks. 2lt conical flasks were too expensive, so I bought a 3lt beaker for about £8. Maybe I should have gone with a 2lt beaker since they are less likely to overflow due to the wide neck. I read that beakers can be used as long as you work within the recommended heat area of your flame. I wish I had bought a 500ml conical as well. Can't wait to get stuck in but one of my strengths is my patients. I won't do anything until I have all the tools to do the job properly. :nono: