Brewing efficiency

[dennisdk2000]

I have decided that it's probably time that I look into my efficiency and what I can do to improve it.

Here's the recipe I followed for my first brew:
recipeview.php?recipe_id=1609

ABV according to the recipe should have been 6.5% - I calculated mine to 6.0%. OG as measured: 1.058, FG as measured: 1.014.

The second brew I did was this:
recipeview.php?recipe_id=1610

ABV according to recipe should have been 9.9% - I calculated mine to 8.1%. OG as measured: 1.076, FG as measured: 1.018.

My mash tun build is shown here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=28322

As for my method:
I heat the water to strike temperature, pour into bucket in the mash tun, then lower in the other bucket (the one with all the holes) filled with the grains into the water, insert a thermometer and put on the lid. To raise the temperature for mash-out, I add hot water, drain some wort off, heat up wort and return, and continue the process until mash-out temperature is reached (I have since got hold of an immersion heater, which helps, but I still do all the faffing). After having insulated the mash tun, I find it much easier to maintain temperature and therefore raise the temperature for mashing out.
But I digress: I do stir as I add water or wort, but gently to avoid oxidising the wort. However, I do also just pour the liquid straight in, don't make use of any sort of sparging implement (perforated tin foil or other - only just discovered such things, an investigating and might incorporate this into my brewing), and I haven't been allowing the grain bed to settle after adding liquid - didn't realise I was meant to... Will probably do this from now on.

So, does anyone have any pointers on where I'm going wrong, and how to calculate efficiency etc? Any feedback to improve my method is much appreciated!

Dennis

 

[prolix]

for your brew length those efficiencies are fine, the percentage lost to dead spaces increases the smaller the vessels.

I gave up chasing efficiency and went for decent beer instead, still haven't brewed any :lol:

 

[dennisdk2000]

Well, so far the brews have been decent, so can't complain - would rather have good beer than efficient beer!

Thanks for the feedback!

Do you use any sort of sparge thingy-ma-jig? Is it worth messing with?

How important it is to let the grain bed settle before continuing the sparge? I'm guessing it might affect clarity - the porter is too dark to judge, but the Trippel was fairly cloudy, though this improved vastly with conditioning - something must have settled out, but unless I poured the beer into a jug fairly rapidly after popping the top.

Dennis

 

[ScottM]

Water + grain = good beer

IMO that's efficient

 

[dennisdk2000]

Water + grain = good beer

IMO that's efficient

:thumb: I like it! :clap:

Dennis

 

[EskiBrew]

Thanks Dennis - in order to work out your actual efficiencies, we'd need to know the actual volume you finished with - for example, you seem to have gotted a slightly lower OG each time than expected - now that might be because your efficiency was lower or alternatively because you sparged more and collected more wort :thumb:

 

[dennisdk2000]

Okay, volumes:

The first brew was mashed using 3L water, additional water for sparging was 3.75L, and my pre-boil volume was 5.25L. Post-boil volume was 4L, so I topped up with water to make 4.5L in FV.

On the second brew, I mashed with 3.4 L water, sparged using 4.5L, and ended up with a pre-boil volume of ?? (forgot to record). Post-boil volume was 4.5L+ (I've made a note that I ended up with more wort than the 4.5L my FV will hold). I further lost 0.5L due to FV over-flowing during initial fermentation!

Hope this helps!

Dennis

 

[EskiBrew]

Hope this helps!

Dennis, it's a bit confusing but here goes:

First brew recipe expects efficiency of 75%
recipe says 5 litre achieving and OG of 1062
however you ended up with 4.5 litre and measured OG of 1058
You are therefore achieved more like 60% efficiency

Second brew recipe expects efficiency of 75%
recipe says 5 litre achieving and OG of 1081
however you ended up with a bit more than 4.5 litre (e.g. 4.6 litre) and measured OG of 1076
You are therefore achieved more like 63% efficiency

Having said all that, as prolix says, it is harder to get good efficiencies on a small brew length so don't fret too much.
Perhaps you can look at your sparge technique if you really want to improve efficiency :thumb:

Hope this is useful :

 

[dennisdk2000]

Bob,

The efficiencies in the recipes are simply default values - I left them as they were when I typed in the recipes. I suppose I need to work out the total amount of sugars available in the grains used, then work out what OG that would give me with the volume of water I had.

I think I might look a bit at my sparge technique. I've seen a post on here where someone used a piece of tin foil with holes in placed on top of the grains, and it was mentioned the you can use say a plastic lid with holes in placed on top of the grains. Can't find the post, but is this helpful in improving efficiency? I suppose I sort of fly sparge - what is the optimum flow rate? I'll have to play about and try and work out to obtain the best flow rate. Is it best to recirculate the wort - part of it oe all of it?

Thanks for all the responses - it's a great learning curve!

Dennis

 

[EskiBrew]

The efficiencies in the recipes are simply default values - I left them as they were when I typed in the recipes.

That's right Dennis, the recipe tool gives a default value as a starting point. Some people achieve better efficiency and some worse - you only get to know this once you have done a few brews and worked out what efficiency your process achieves. You then set your actual achieved efficiency in future recipes.

I suppose I need to work out the total amount of sugars available in the grains used, then work out what OG that would give me with the volume of water I had.

That's exactly what the recipe tool has done for you. It works out what sugar can be recovered from the grain assuming 100% efficiency and then applies the efficiency your specify (75% in your case) to work out the expected sugar quantity that will be recovered.

Once you have done a few brews and worked out what efficiency you actually get, you then use that value of efficiency in future recipes and adjust the grain weight to achieve a specific OG that you desire.

I think I might look a bit at my sparge technique.

As prolix implies, it can be hard to improve efficiency on a small batch size but it may be worth looking at if you are inclined that way.

As you improve your technique, you should find that your efficiency increases and therefore when you enter the new efficiency into the recipe tool, you will find that you can use a smaller amount of grain to achieve the same desired OG.

I've seen a post on here where someone used a piece of tin foil with holes in placed on top of the grains, and it was mentioned the you can use say a plastic lid with holes in placed on top of the grains. Can't find the post, but is this helpful in improving efficiency?

Yes it does work. The idea is that you want to wash each and every grain to wash off the sugar. If you pour the water too fast, you can get channels in the grain where the water simply runs off rapidly and touches relatively few grains. The idea is to pour very very slowly so that channels do not form and the water soaks through slowly washing every grain on the way.

I suppose I sort of fly sparge - what is the optimum flow rate? I'll have to play about and try and work out to obtain the best flow rate. Is it best to recirculate the wort - part of it oe all of it?

When I do a 21 litre batch, I usually sparge with about 25 litres and this takes me about 45 minutes so we are talking a rate of about 0.5 litre per minute. You probably sparge with say 4 litres so you'd have it done in under 10 minutes without rushing.

 

[dennisdk2000]

When I do a 21 litre batch, I usually sparge with about 25 litres and this takes me about 45 minutes so we are talking a rate of about 0.5 litre per minute. You probably sparge with say 4 litres so you'd have it done in under 10 minutes without rushing.

I'm impressed with that estimation - the recipes I follow say 4.5L!

I will have a go at the sparge thingy - and it made me think: one of my beers was fairly hazy, could part of the reason be that I disturbed the grain bed by pouring the spargewater in too quickly/violently? The efficiency wasn't great on that one...

Dennis

 

[wilsoa1111]

Well tbh i reckon that efficency is prob the best pos on a small setup or the a few percent gained with the extra time cost u would be better just buying more grain-as this small have u considered BIAB, seems really easy to me (just get voile material on the fleabay) and may be more efficent (some people get 80% doing this) as can properly drain and dunk the grains at this size, but if ur after clear beer that may not be the way to go- however im sure someone knows how to do that-i heard by passing the water through the layer of hops in the hop bag a bit as that would filter-or a non soaped ss brillo pad). As for clear beer i did find that a slower draining rate like a little more than a trickle definately set the grainbed up to filter better-could tell when adding the first few 4x500ml jugs back was clear after 2 not my usual 5+ -when i give up

 

[dennisdk2000]

Cheers, wilsoa1111 - and I suppose the amount of grain I use, efficiency isn't massively important.

Will play about with sparging - thanks for your help.

Dennis

 

[Vossy1]

Just to confuse matters :P ...... quite a few brewers deliberately add more grain so they can be more inefficient. The theory is, the closer you get to the sparge cut off point of 1.006, the more likely you are to extract tannins and other unwanted undesirables....so potentially you get a better quality wort if you finish higher say 1.015 0r 1.020.

 

[zgoda]

Lowering sparge water pH helps to prevent tannin extraction from grains. 1ml of 80% lactic acid in 15 litres sparge water allows to sparge to 1.010 runnings gravity.