Brewferm Oud Vlaams Bruin - lack of carbing and disappointing taste

[kimosabby]

Gents,

had this Brewferm kit in the bottle for 5 weeks including 1 week for 2nd fermentation in the ex's airing cupboard. Currently being stored at 10C.

Had high hopes and just tasted one but very flat and taste thick and syrupy. I made it close to instructions except using 1kg of golden syrup. Also priming sugar was 1 and a bit coopers drops per bottle.

Is it to late to try and carb them up after all this time? I cant imagine they will carb up any further with aging. Also taste not what people make out for a Brewferm Kit.

Any suggestions would be great thanks

Kimosabby

 

[Sandimas]

Sounds like something has gone wrong, did you measure the OG and FG, if so what were they? I usually get 1060 OG finishing at 1012 or so.

I do that kit regularly and it's my favourite of all the Brewferm Belgian kits. I use Golden Syrup as you do, and get a nice big creamy head.

Worth trying re-priming but with sugar as have heard of variable results with those carbonation drops, try a teaspoon per 500ml bottle and keep them in the warm for a good 2 weeks.

 

[kimosabby]

Thats a lightening response for Boxing Day - service with a grimice :thumb:

Started off with OG 1065 and FG was 1011. Used about 1100g of Golden syrup. Too much?

10 days in FV
2 weeks in Secondary FV
1 week in bottles in airing cupboard
4 weeks in outhouse 12C

First taste was today - no head and very flat. A bit treacaly.

When challenged you can always doubt yourself but i'm 99% sure i put 1 1/4 carb drop per 500ml. Not had an issue with carb drops before and done a few brews with them now.

Also cant guarantee what the temp was in ex's airing cupboard but sure when measured previosuly was 21C.

Is it worth trying to simply put bottles back in warmth for week or 2? Got my own warm box with heating tube now so can control fairly accurately.

If i recarb as you describe do I need to re bottle or can they stay as they are? Concerned that if I do this will be too much sugar in there.

read somewhere that racking to second FV can loose yeast needed to help carbing. Did you rack to second FV?

Also what was the taste at 4-5 weeks? Very very dark

Thanks for the reply - its appreciated.

 

[Dads_Ale]

If they taste syrupy then there is a good chance there has been little or no fermentation in the bottle. I would start by putting them somewhere warmer (18-20c) for a few weeks then try one again.. One week in the warm is not really long enough.

 

[kimosabby]

Thats the easiest solution to start with; is it not too late to do this after 4-5 weeks in teh cool?

I will move them into the warm box now.

I now use 1 coopers PET bottle with each batch of brews with all glass bottles and the last 2 which I have started doing that with have hardened fully after 1 week. U reckon 2 weeks is better than 1?

Does the beer start to age only after carbing has completed or as soon as in the bottle?

 

[Dads_Ale]

This thread should help

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58362

 

[Sandimas]

2 weeks in Secondary FV
1 week in bottles in airing cupboard
4 weeks in outhouse 12C

I think that's your problem(s): too long in the secondary, and too short in the warm after bottling.

I started using a secondary this year after 4 years of brewing, a lot of people say there should be plenty of yeast suspended even if bottling when clear, but I'm not convinced: a number of my brews have been under-carbonated since going to a secondary. So now I still use a secondary, but it's in there a max of 4-5 days prior to bottling, and then once bottled a good 2-3 weeks in the warm to compensate for the lack of suspended yeast. This seems to work for me.

So re-prime, leave them a couple of weeks in the warm, and you should be OK. :thumb:

Oh, and you may have used a little too much Golden Syrup, I think the recommendation is 10% more than the equivalent sugar volume, I usually chuck in a whole Tate & Lyle 907g big tin. But you'll just end up with a slightly stronger beer.

 

[kimosabby]

I think that's your problem(s): too long in the secondary, and too short in the warm after bottling.

I started using a secondary this year after 4 years of brewing, a lot of people say there should be plenty of yeast suspended even if bottling when clear, but I'm not convinced: a number of my brews have been under-carbonated since going to a secondary. So now I still use a secondary, but it's in there a max of 4-5 days prior to bottling, and then once bottled a good 2-3 weeks in the warm to compensate for the lack of suspended yeast. This seems to work for me.

So re-prime, leave them a couple of weeks in the warm, and you should be OK. :thumb:

Oh, and you may have used a little too much Golden Syrup, I think the recommendation is 10% more than the equivalent sugar volume, I usually chuck in a whole Tate & Lyle 907g big tin. But you'll just end up with a slightly stronger beer.

u think re-priming is the way. Won't the unfermented sugar still be in there? Worried that there will be too much sugar if a re-prime.

How long does it take from bottling for the taste to turn good. I know Breferm kits need a lng time but whats the minimum

Have you ever tried reactivating with yeast as someone mentioned in the link above

 

[serum]

I had poor carbonation with quite a few brewferm kits back when I did them but now if I prime anywhere near that level for an AG brew I get a whopping great head. I'm not sure the yeast is much cop.

 

[stevej]

I have brewed my share of Brewferm kits #brewandforgetthem, a lot of people are brewing these kits thinking there like standard kits a month or two and drink them wrong!

These kits need a lot of time to come right, I have had flat bottles for months on end i no this because i always used one pet bottle, my advise is brew them store them forget about them in 6 months it will be good in 12 it will be great

 

[Bigcol49]

Try the most simple solution first - get the bottles back into the warm for a couple of weeks.
Re: secondary fermentation time. I had a Scottish Heavy in secondary for two weeks, followed by a two week cold condition. I kept the bottles at 20 degrees Celsius for two and a half weeks before chilling one in the fridge as a test. The bottle I tested has excellent carbonation and yields a rich, creamy head. I'm going to leave the rest until they have had three weeks before moving them into the cold conditioning room (AKA the shed).

 

[Sandimas]

These kits need a lot of time to come right,

Oud Vlaams Bruin is the exception - done with syrup, is comes good surprisingly quickly, I guess because it's "only" 6%. I regularly do a variety of Brewferm kits and agree that most of them need a long time to come good e.g. 9 months seems to be the sweet spot with Abdij, but they are much stronger brews.

 

[stevej]

Oud Vlaams Bruin is the exception - done with syrup, is comes good surprisingly quickly, I guess because it's "only" 6%. I regularly do a variety of Brewferm kits and agree that most of them need a long time to come good e.g. 9 months seems to be the sweet spot with Abdij, but they are much stronger brews.

Tbh i have made most of the Brewferm kits and i have found they are all far superior after 6 months personal preference or taste i suppose

 

[kimosabby]

thanks for all your comments gents. Ive got a warm box now so ive put them in there (about 22C). Will leave for 2 weeks on this one.

They did originally 2nd ferment in ex's aircupboard and temp may have fallen below 20 but cant be sure? Also it was only a week.

Got no issue with patience for months as long as I known they are heading in right direction.

Ill give an update in 2 weeks to see if carbing has improved.

All my brews have been done for a week on secondary ferment and ive not yet been impressed with any carbing :nono:so going to always do 2 weeks now.

Wealth of knowledge and experience on here always learning :mrgreen:

 

[Sandimas]

Tbh i have made most of the Brewferm kits and i have found they are all far superior after 6 months personal preference or taste i suppose

Yes they are. The point I was trying to make was that Oud Vlaams is acceptable far earlier than many of the others. I brewed an Abdij 3 months ago and it's not really drinkable yet, last one took 10-12 months to come good, as did many of the other brews from Brewferm. But every time I do Oud Vlaams it's ready within 3 months, yes it continues to get better but it's pretty good even that young. I brew it about twice a year.

 

[stevej]

Yes they are. The point I was trying to make was that Oud Vlaams is acceptable far earlier than many of the others. I brewed an Abdij 3 months ago and it's not really drinkable yet, last one took 10-12 months to come good, as did many of the other brews from Brewferm. But every time I do Oud Vlaams it's ready within 3 months, yes it continues to get better but it's pretty good even that young. I brew it about twice a year.

And the point i was making was newbies that tend to start off with kits want to drink there beers way to early to start with never mind the Brewferm kits, like i said its down to taste and what your happy with :thumb:

 

[kimosabby]

thanks for all your comments gents. Ive got a warm box now so ive put them in there (about 22C). Will leave for 2 weeks on this one.

They did originally 2nd ferment in ex's aircupboard and temp may have fallen below 20 but cant be sure? Also it was only a week.

Got no issue with patience for months as long as I known they are heading in right direction.

Ill give an update in 2 weeks to see if carbing has improved.

All my brews have been done for a week on secondary ferment and ive not yet been impressed with any carbing :nono:so going to always do 2 weeks now.

Wealth of knowledge and experience on here always learning :mrgreen:

2 weeks back in warm box; cracked one open few days ago and still no carbing what so ever. It fizzes initialy with a little head but then very very quickly disappears to nothing. I know its a Brewferm but dont think taste is where its meant to be after 2 months and flatter than a super model. So have opened 2 more bottles and reprimed 1 with 3g sugar (1 coopers drop) and added 1/4 teaspoon of trub from bottom of Coopers stout FV which ive got on the go - no sugar repriming on this one. Will give them both another 2 weeks in the warm box. I aint giving up on this one - YET!

As ever will keep you posted

Kimosabby