Brewdog and CAMRA

[dennisking]

Just came across this, looks like the gloves are off.

http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/cam ... s-gbbf-bar

 

[evanvine]

I know there are many who will disagree, but to my mind "Camra" has totally out lived it's reason for being.
It is now a pompous Old Boys Club that will not die gracefully!

 

[StubbsPKS]

I can see both sides of this argument, but from the facts presented solely in the article (it's obviously going to be one-sided, but we don't have CAMRA's side), this is pretty messed up.

If you agree to something and write up a contract stating that agreement, you don't just change your mind and try to strong arm the other party into accepting it. You ESPECIALLY don't go cancel them prior to the deadline when your tactics work.

On the other hand, Brew Dog know that CAMRA are all about cask beer. Brew dog does cask beers, and could have brought casks with them from the first place. I am wondering if they tried to bring kegs simply to point out that there are other ways to drink beer than from a cask... which is a bit controversial at a venue operated by CAMRA obviously.

 

[graysalchemy]

I am wondering if they tried to bring kegs simply to point out that there are other ways to drink beer than from a cask... which is a bit controversial at a venue operated by CAMRA obviously.

I think that was 100% the reason. They obviously don't get on and Brew Dog philosophy seems to be to re write the rule book, so I think they had no intention of bringing cask. Whether their beer is best served from a keg in fairness only they will know.

I think CAMRA are not embracing the times we live in. Real ale needs to attract a younger generation and Brew Dog is a brand which is probably able to do that, so CAMRA should not be discouraging a company like that.

At the end of the day reading that blog I don't think CAMRA wanted BREW Dog there in the first place. However I think we need to read what CAMRA have to say.

 

[StubbsPKS]

I definitely agree that the UK needs to step up the craft brewing scene, but drama like this is not the way to do it.

If the UK doesn't want to get left behind by the rest of the world, then organisations like Brew Dog and CAMRA need to find some middle ground. Rocking the boat for the sake of publicity is certainly not the way to do that though

 

[Dunfie]

Its an interesting debate. I am sure that BrewDog are quite happy that the incident happened as they are not averse to using this type of publicity in their favour.

Unfortunately there are people in CAMRA who cannot accept keg beer in any form and their position is not going to change. They tend to be at the top of the organisation and close ranks whenever these issues come up. As with most organisations, any changes to this would have to come from within but it seems unlikely that someone will pop up within the organisation with keg beer agenda.

I have mentioned on here before but the Scottish Craft Brewers used to have a table at the Scottish Traditional Ale Festival in Edinburgh each year but we ran foul of the CO2 rules (dispensing beer via cornie) and were not invited back.

 

[graysalchemy]

Most of these bodies are run by a clique who's opinion hold a lot weight so it is really a case of not over my dead body for these people and unfortunately to make change you have to weight for nature to take its course. The same happens in my industry we have a 'govening body' (i say that loosely) who have standards which came out of the 1970's (even though they were not written till the 1990's) and things will not change until these semi retired people finally drop of their mortal coil.

I do agree this is probably the best outcome for Brew Dog as all the beer bloggers will be writing about it and with any luck for them reach the national press.

 

[Runwell-Steve]

I think this was probably BrewDogs intention all along, they are quite good when it comes to PR stunts, as has been said before they could easily have turned up with their beer in 18 Gallon casks as requested by CAMRA if they had wanted to, where would the publicity be then though.
Last year Thornbridge supplied all their beer to the GBBF in 9 Gallon casks as that was all they could do, but this year CAMRA have insisted that they do everything in 18's. This is mainly due to the amount of casks they are dealing with and don't want lots of little ones.

I'm sure CAMRA had some reasons behind their decision, but the fact BrewDog had not paid their deposit less than 2 weeks prior to the event kind of sounds like they had no choice but to cancel them.

Should it even be called the Great British Beer Festival though? Should it not be the Great British Real Ale Festival? Oh no we can't have that as they will be serving foreign beers there, out of kegs incidentally. So it's not a Real Ale Festival at all as they will be serving cider, Perry, and foreign beers from kegs, hmmm..

CAMRA really do need to look at what they are doing at the moment, is it really helping the beer scene in the UK, I don't want to use the term Craft Beer, as I don't really know if that has a true meaning. CAMRAs aim is to make more choice of good beer available, it's just their definition of good beer that needs adjusting.

'Campaign for Real Ale', is their really any Campaign any more? We have got ridden of Watneys Red Barrel domination of the '70s and the beer scene is now moving along in this country and looking healthier than ever, you would have to agree that CAMRA have achieved a lot in the past to help make this happen, but progress must be allowed to continue.

What does CAMRA stand for these days, it seems to me that CAMRAs definition of good beer is anything carbonated naturally in a cask with live yeast still in it. There doesn't seem to be any criteria around what it tastes like though.

I am not a huge fan of some of the BrewDog beers, but I would have rather had one of them than some of the tasteless rubbish I sampled at the CAMRA beer fest in Chelmsford a couple of weeks back.

Surely CAMRA should be focussing on getting good beer choice available for everyone and supporting all breweries and methods of dispense that are able to produce high quality beer. Some bars will never serve enough beer to be able to successfully maintain a cask of real ale, so why not support them selling a keg of high quality beer, it's a lot better than the current choice you get in a lot of places of Fosters, Guinness, and John Smiths smoothflow.

 

[Aleman]

Some bars will never serve enough beer to be able to successfully maintain a cask of real ale, so why not support them selling a keg of high quality beer

Or Gasp Horror . . . Allowing a cask breather on a cask in pubs that don't get a lot of throughput.

I have actually had one CAMRA fossil telling me that the beer I had was wonderful as it was full of the typical character of real ale . . . IMO the cask had been on for at least two weeks and was acetified . . . Off . . . I sent the pint back. . . .and mentioned that the CAMRA guy was a complete f*ckwit

If CAMRA want to tell everyone that stale beer is how it should be drunk they ain't getting my money

 

[graysalchemy]

Some good points there Runwell. As we have all complained at some time that a lot of 'real ale' is sh*te served in pubs is and perhaps camra should be focusing on beer that actually tastes half decent not just the way that it is stored and dispensed. I know that a lot of that is down to how it is kept and CAMRA do spend a lot of time on promoting standards in pubs but there is still a lot of mediocre beer out there, which if you had a pint of wouldn't be anything special or make you buy a second.

And with the naming of The Great British Beer Festival surely it is in breech of trades descriptions act by allowing beer not brewed in the UK in and beverages which are clearly not beer :lol: :lol:

 

[Swift Pint]

I think its obvious that CAMRA are never going to change their remit & will always be just about the cask ale.
As a result of this they will become less and less relevant as the beer scene progresses.

The naming issue of the GBBF is an interesting point. Its more like the London CAMRA Beer Festival....

I think that either non-CAMRA should get involved in the running of the GBBF in order to diversify a bit & include kegged craft beer ( though I know this will never be allowed to happen!) or an alternative festival be organised. Personally I love the idea of a Winter Craft Beer Fest. It wouldn't compete with GBBF cos it would be in the winter, it would have the best beer the world has to offer (kegged/casked/British/American/Eurpopean/whatever), not to mention that winter beers tends to bring out some nice dark beers :drink:

 

[richc]

I think its obvious that CAMRA are never going to change their remit & will always be just about the cask ale.
As a result of this they will become less and less relevant as the beer scene progresses.

The naming issue of the GBBF is an interesting point. Its more like the London CAMRA Beer Festival....

I think that either non-CAMRA should get involved in the running of the GBBF in order to diversify a bit & include kegged craft beer ( though I know this will never be allowed to happen!) or an alternative festival be organised. Personally I love the idea of a Winter Craft Beer Fest. It wouldn't compete with GBBF cos it would be in the winter, it would have the best beer the world has to offer (kegged/casked/British/American/Eurpopean/whatever), not to mention that winter beers tends to bring out some nice dark beers :drink:

There is the CAMRA winter ales festival but last I heard there was some debate about where that would be held next year.

The example of some of the US brewing conferences is an interesting one with a professional brewers night and a home brewers night in the same event.

 

[dennisking]

I was with Steve at Chelmsford and as he says most of the beers, mainly from micros were very ordinary, with the exception of Wibblers and Phil from Wibblers has told me they have not been "invited" to the GBBF. I was an early member of CAMRA in the 70's but left after about 5 years because I was making my own and I can remember reading whats brewing where they seem more concerned about the lack of dominoes in pubs rather than the beer arguments of the day. I just thought they were undoing the good work achieved.

 

[unclepumble]

I think CAMRA are the least of Brewdog's worries I do think that THE BEER DUTY ESCALATOR will be more of a worry for them.

As any beer over 7.5% from the time it kicks in will be a lot more expensive than it currently is, Hardore IPA & Tesco Finest Double IPA, will be out of reach of many the latter will probably disapear all together.

As for the super strength Beers they do well how much will they be :shock: ?

UP

 

[abeyptfc]

bunch of tadgers, we are better off brewing our own fella's!

 

[leedsbrew]

I've posted a bit about this on another thread.

I love BRA. A great pint of British real ale is a great thing. After coming back from america this year I was craving a beer that didn't have cascade hops in (Now I never thought I'd say that!) Where did I turn to? Great local breweries like Saltaire, Ilkley and Leeds, from a great local beer bar in Guiseley. What really gets my goat are the breweries that seem to coast along selling clone-a-like beers that are indistinguishable from one brewery to the next. Is this really how WE the british real ale drinker wants our beer? I for one do not.

After reading an article in the Guardian, one of the closing remarks was

There is, of course, the question of just how much flavour the average British drinker actually wants in their beer

:shock: :shock: :shock:

I would quite happily buy a pint of flavorful, exciting keg beer over crap, bland cask ale, simply becouse it contains 0.1 million living yeast cells per ml, and the other way around! Good beer is good beer! Period!

we ran foul of the CO2 rules (dispensing beer via cornie) and were not invited back.

I find this mind boggling! Great local craft/HB beer not welcome! :shock:

 

[prolix]

two points

1 brewdog hold your own festival or pay for your own advertising you cheap skates don't ponse it off other people by being "rude"

2 none of my beer is real ale? CAMRA take a running jump

breweries should try the name "ale" and use cask breathers or kegs, just make it nice.

 

[evanvine]

none of my beer is real ale? CAMRA take a running jump

I was fully expecting to have to duck for my comment!

 

[Swift Pint]

none of my beer is real ale? CAMRA take a running jump

I was fully expecting to have to duck for my comment!

I wouldnt nessecarily say that CAMRA has outlived its reason for being, well not completely.
I just think that its not as relevant now as when it was set up. The new wave of craft beer is proving that quality of the beer is not dependant on the method of serving.

I think what we need is a decent non-CAMRA good beer festival; with the best beer available and without the politics.

 

[Stone Cold]

grumpy old men!