Boiling off bicarbs?

[Sideboard]

From John palmer-how to brew
There are two methods the homebrewer can use to bring the bicarbonate level down to the nominal 50 - 150 ppm range for most pale ales, or even lower for light lagers such as Pilsener. These methods are boiling, and dilution.

Carbonate can be precipitated (ppt) out as Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) by aeration and boiling according to the following reaction:

2HCO3-1 + Ca+2 + O2 gas --> CaCO3 (ppt) + H2O + CO2 gas

where oxygen from aeration acts as a catalyst and the heat of boiling prevents the carbon dioxide from dissolving back into the water to create carbonic acid.

Fair enough, got that but how long would you boil water for, would I have to first do salivert alkiline test and then time a boil and then alkaline test again to see the percentage of change in hardness levels?
Then if I used my same tap water each time and boiled for the same time I could save on tests? Then could I adjust the times to remove more or less bicarbs.
:hmm:

 

[oldjiver]

I did all the testing 30 odd years ago with PH papers as my water is chalky. I found that bringing the water to the boil and adding 1 tsp gypsum needed about 15-20 minutes boiling, leave to stand for half hour and the soluble calcium bicarbonate has become insoluble calcium carbonate and dropped to the boiler bottom. I then drain the boiler, into another vessel and chuck away everything under tap level. This gave me a mash level of PH 5.3 from a 7.1 original water. I dont check anything now as the boil and gypsum have never let me down. (for bitters) Stout I just boil.

 

[Sideboard]

Yeah I was going too deep there.

My tap ph is 7, so I'll do as you do and see if I can hit 5.3ish. I'm Brewing Wednesday, Ill let you know how it goes.

 

[Sideboard]

I ended up brewing yesterday :drink: as I have too much to do today. My lager ingredients didn't come till today so I went for a dark bitter instead. I normally forget something In the process and this time was no different. Mash time came and I forgot to put the adjuncts(crystal, choc malt etc) in with the pale malt. :lol: After 30mins mashing I remembered and they went in for an hour.
I didn't get round to boiling liquor either, .

I'm trying to justify it here now by thinking that as I mashed at 153f, which is the compromise between optimum alpha and beta amylase, by putting pale malt in first would retain a high ph which would favor Alpha. And when the adjuncts went in it would lower ph and favor beta. Which I'm assuming is in the right order.
Have you/anyone any thoughts on this? Is there any +/- affect from the step addition in mash? would it improve efficiency?
I'll still try and do the lager as you said with the gypsum, sounds good to me.

 

[oldjiver]

As you didnt boil the calcium bicarbonate out of the water the liquor would still be at the original PH. I would imagine the mash just sat there until your addition of dark malts lowered the PH sufficiently for enzymatic action to take place. I am no expert on this but I would think that if the PH was too high the Alpha amylase wouldnt be doing much anyway? The general idea is to get the PH right and THEN used temperature variation to achieve the balance you want between maltose and dextrins.
My method of boiling and adding gypsum is for BITTER. I am not a lager brewer but I understand it needs soft water as lager malt is naturally more acidic, so gypsum might not be right for this.
I am a naturally lazy brewer who for years has been able to make good beer (bitter, mild, and stout) without bothering too much to educate myself with more than the basics of water treatment. So hopefully someone more skilled will join this thread.

 

[Sideboard]

hopefully someone more skilled will join this thread.

I doubt its going to happen. I would have to log on through the tor network, create another username and brown nose pigs.

But Thanks for the advice, always a quality post from your direction. Maybe we'll chat again, won't be sideboard though, I'm off.

 

[oldjiver]

Has someone upset you?? (genuine query) :thumb:

 

[joe1002]

I doubt its going to happen. I would have to log on through the tor network, create another username and brown nose pigs.

But Thanks for the advice, always a quality post from your direction. Maybe we'll chat again, won't be sideboard though, I'm off.

?????? :hmm: