Boiler steam extraction question

[Frisp]

Mi amigos.
Im pondering the finer points of my 100L brewery. having retracted on her earlier promise to give me the dining room she has deemed that I can have a corner of the lean-to .

One of the downsides of this location is that it is feckin minging out there , tim roof and cobwebs. I can line it out nice and pretty with shiney white board and It could work quite nice. It has a hot and cold supply nearby and the electrics are close to hand.

Drips are my concern as there is not much opportunity for a through draught and, A pound to a pinch of ****, the roof will turn into drip city.

I have noticed that Wickes have a cooker hood at £40. :hmm: If I mount one of them a couple of feet above my boiler and vent to the outside will it be man enough to keep my precious boil drip free.......

 

[EskiBrew]

I have noticed that Wickes have a cooker hood at £40. :hmm: If I mount one of them a couple of feet above my boiler and vent to the outside will it be man enough to keep my precious boil drip free.......

Unfortunately I doubt it :nono:

I've had my boiler on top of the cooker before now with the idea being that the extractor hood would take the steam out. It was ok for about 30 mins but then the condensation in the extractor was so bad that drips were starting to fall back into the boiler and the motor in the extractor started making a fizzing shorting sound :shock:

 

[ano]

The main problem with them is most seem to have an air filter upon which condensation will form. One alternative I saw was a home made one out of some sort of tubular ducting and fan. In all likelihood condensation will still form on the duct and become problematic. Can't recall a solution to that. A window and pedestal fan might be better.

 

[Frisp]

The word Im looking for ends in Ugger,

Option two was to mount a couple of bathroom extractors in the wall to one side of the boiler in the hope it will draw the steam outside..... Has that more chance of working?

 

[EskiBrew]

The main problem with them is most seem to have an air filter upon which condensation will form.

I had taken the filter out otherwise it would have been a nightmare.

One alternative I saw was a home made one out of some sort of tubular ducting and fan. In all likelihood condensation will still form on the duct and become problematic.

Out own Vossy made one from aluminium ducting and a fan however IIRC, he too had problems with condensation on the fan causing a nasty plasticy smelling liquid to drip back into the beer.

Option two was to mount a couple of bathroom extractors in the wall to one side of the boiler in the hope it will draw the steam outside..... Has that more chance of working?

Might do. The ducting solution would work if the fan motor was not in the airflow - what I mean is if the fan and motor were separate using that were connected with a drive belt, the condensation could collect on the fan but not affect the motor.

 

[ano]

The main problem with them is most seem to have an air filter upon which condensation will form.

I had taken the filter out otherwise it would have been a nightmare.

Aha! tbh thought you might have done, shame it still doesn't work. You reckon commerical sized copper hoods have the drive mechanism you suggest? Or do they rely more on a chimney effect?

 

[Wez]

I was talking about steam extraction with muddy' & smod yesterday, will be interested to hear what comes out here...

 

[prolix]

could you fabricate a lid (Or butcher the lid) and pipe with a beyond 90 bend so that only condensate on the first section that you can clean ever drips back and the rest drains away no need for fans.

something like this

but upside down and capped at the top then just stick the drain pipe out the door and collect run off in a bucket.

I probably would not use drain pipe but it is for show, you could use bendable aluminium ducting to do the bend then a drain pipe.

you could get a fabricator to make a stainless bend or use a car exhaust just get them to bend it a little further. then get it welded to the lid

 

[Frisp]

Screwfix do 6inch bathroom extractors for a tenner each. Now working on the principle that one of these beauties just about deals with the steam from my powershower I reccon that a bank of 3 or 4 on the wall adjacent to the boiler should deal with the steam..... Its going to be a couple of months before I try this but any suggestions will be gratefully recieved..

another option was to make a glassless window, with flyscreen . And make a shutter for times of no usage and employ a fan to blow it outside, Downside is when the wind is head on and it blows against the fan...

 

[EskiBrew]

My local micro uses a fanless chimney system similar to what Prolix suggests (although all metal rather than plastic). Imagine a zigzag shape chimney (up then down then up again) - The condensation collects in the down bit and there is a 1/2 inch tube which goes down to a bucket on the floor - The condensate simply ends up in the bucket.

 

[commsbiff]

I reckon a cone type would work just as well. If you didn't care how it looked you could use a hula hoop for the lower, larger rim (larger than the diameter of your pot) with some taped plastic sheeting to the inside of an extractor tube/pipe (if this was standard tumble dryer type tubing you could even raise and lower it).

 

[Aleman]

One of the best schemes I've heard of to deal with stem in the brewery is a steam scrubber.

If you have enough height in the boiler you have a 4 or 6 inch diameter tube welded in near the lid this sticks out for a couple of inches then makes a right angle bend pointing down. At the top of the bend you inject a fine mist of cold water. The steam condenses instantly and runs out of the pipe and into the drain.

The only time you get any release of vapour or volatiles is when you lift the hatch to add later hops. IIRC Mick Harrison has one of these boilers based down south near Aylesbury somewhere. . . . . I'll see if I can find pictures

 

[Vossy1]

Out own Vossy made one from aluminium ducting and a fan however IIRC, he too had problems with condensation on the fan causing a nasty plasticy smelling liquid to drip back into the beer.

I did

Suggestions F, I've seen a few breweries use either stainless or aluminium ducting straight off the copper with the lid firmly in place. Some use a fan to aid extraction, some don't. Volatiles get boiled off and will escape, so don't worry about them.
Make sure your ducting is clean, a lot of metal ducting has a talc inside it from production, make sure you clean it thoroughly before use. I've even seen one brewery (think it was Micks brewery) who sprayed water mist into the ducting to cool the steam so the brewery gave off little smell? anyway I digress.

You could take the ducting off the copper at a right angle and take it towards the floor, that way condensate cannot drip back into the kettle. If taking the ducting vertically you could create a swan neck in the ducting to trap any returning condensate, a small hole in the bottom of the swan neck with a bucket underneath will allow you to drain the condensate as it builds up.
I used a hydroponics fan (e-bay) directly above the lid to extract. This was a bad mistake as something leached out of the plastic and dripped into the beer....I threw that batch away. Any 'non boiling' rated plastics you use may leach, so make sure the condensate from them can't get back into the kettle. Another problem was that I couldn't leave the lid on the boiler with the extractor fan on, as the suction was too powerful, and also I couldn't watch for boil overs.
So I raised the lid slightly off the boiler to allow air into the area above the copper so as not to create a vacumm. This created another problem, the fan was so powerful that it was sucking air above the copper at such a rate it was knocking the copper of the boil. I bought a power regulator for my fan but haven't got round to using it.

If you do go for mounting the ducting directly onto the lid you will find you only need one element on to maintain a nice boil.

 

[Frisp]

Hmm :hmm: so if I drill out the lid on my boiler. take the steam off at 90 degrees off to the side then drop it down a cold condenser setup it will drop the crap into a bucket on its own accord. A slight pressure build up in the boiler will force the steam into the condenser....... Flipin eck this is going to look like my bio fuel plant.
And as vossy points out with the lid on it will need less power to get a rolling boil..........
The logical condenser would be a plumbers delight style condenser about 600MM long cooled off the Python on my chiller.....

Hmmm :hmm: I like it

 

[EskiBrew]

I'm interested to see how you get on with this :thumb:

 

[Vossy1]

Hmm so if I drill out the lid on my boiler. take the steam off at 90 degrees off to the side then drop it down a cold condenser setup it will drop the crap into a bucket on its own accord

How about taking the outlet of at a right angle from the boiler, then angle the duct slightly off horizontal (downwards) and straight through the wall to vent to the outside, all at a slight angle so all the condesate drip outside.

 

[Frisp]

Hmm so if I drill out the lid on my boiler. take the steam off at 90 degrees off to the side then drop it down a cold condenser setup it will drop the crap into a bucket on its own accord

How about taking the outlet of at a right angle from the boiler, then angle the duct slightly off horizontal (downwards) and straight through the wall to vent to the outside, all at a slight angle so all the condesate drip outside.

:hmm: dont mind screwing up the lid but popping another hole in the side of the boiler , albeit at the top kinda makes me nervous. A bit like screwing an aftermarket airscoop on yer Ferrari

This is just a thought. even with an outlet, there will still be a substantial lid area exposed to the outside temps and nasty condensate is bound to form on that? so will this approach work?

 

[Aleman]

This is just a thought. even with an outlet, there will still be a substantial lid area exposed to the outside temps and nasty condensate is bound to form on that? so will this approach work?

Once the lid reaches 100C condensate won't form on it . . . You can see from my brewery pics that I have lids on my kettles and have no problems with 'bad' volatiles condensing on the lid and dripping back into the wort. . . . If going for a full lid with a hole out the side . . . insulate the lid.

 

[Frisp]

Once the lid reaches 100C condensate won't form on it . . . You can see from my brewery pics that I have lids on my kettles and have no problems with 'bad' volatiles condensing on the lid and dripping back into the wort. . . . If going for a full lid with a hole out the side . . . insulate the lid.

So I would be better butchering the lid. Should The lids still be insulated.... I suppose it would help