Black malt vs Chocolate malt

[Galena]

I have almost all the ingredients to have a go at Greg Hughes ESB recipe as a good way of using the Ringwood yeast I have just revitalised.
The only thing is I don't have the chocolate malt and wondered if I would notice much difference if I substituted with Black malt?
I have just noticed that there is only 17 grams so I guess this is for colour only?

 

[The Baron]

It would not be massive IMO but if you do do it use the Black malt make it late in the mash just for colour as it can give a acrid harsh taste if fully mashed even small amounts.
If you have some cocoa nibs use a little to sub in the FV but not too much

 

[Galena]

It would not be massive IMO but if you do do it use the Black malt make it late in the mash just for colour as it can give a acrid harsh taste if fully mashed even small amounts.
If you have some cocoa nibs use a little to sub in the FV but not too much

Good idea adding it late cheers.

 

[Slid]

I am thinking of doing the ESB again this weekend and TBH my plan is to ignore the 17g of Choc Malt altogether, as 224g ofa medium - dark crystal will make it dark enough already.

 

[Galena]

I am thinking of doing the ESB again this weekend and TBH my plan is to ignore the 17g of Choc Malt altogether, as 224g ofa medium - dark crystal will make it dark enough already.

That is a very good point but do you think the lack of 17g of Choc, it will lack any toasty flavours?

 

[An Ankoù]

It would not be massive IMO but if you do do it use the Black malt make it late in the mash just for colour as it can give a acrid harsh taste if fully mashed even small amounts.

As it happens, I've been wasting my time this afternoon trying to source a substitute for Midnight Wheat Malt by Breiss. Malt Miller used to do it and they now claim that chocolate wheat is good substitute. Chocolate wheat is excellent stuff, but simply not dark enough. Found a couple of suppliers: Château Black Wheat malt and Gladfields Eclipse Wheat. This stuff is supposed to have all the roast of patent black, but much more mellow and no acridity. We'll see. I've ordered the Château.

 

[foxbat]

If all you want is maximum darkness without flavour then a de-husked grain like Carafa III will do the trick. Still not enough? Try brewers caramel at 10k EBC.

I'm using Carafa II at the moment because I have some left over but last year used chocolate wheat and that worked well.

Basically at <100g in a 5kg grain bill you'll struggle to detect any of them.

 

[Galena]

If all you want is maximum darkness without flavour then a de-husked grain like Carafa III will do the trick. Still not enough? Try brewers caramel at 10k EBC.

I'm using Carafa II at the moment because I have some left over but last year used chocolate wheat and that worked well.

Basically at <100g in a 5kg grain bill you'll struggle to detect any of them.

I'm trying to make a brew with what I have in stock, particularly to use up a Ringwood starter I made to revitalise my yeast. GH's ESB was close to what I have apart from the chocolate and I was wondering if I would miss it with it just being 17 grams. I will probably just take @the baron 's advice and brew without or add a little black late in the mash for colour.

 

[Slid]

That is a very good point but do you think the lack of 17g of Choc, it will lack any toasty flavours?

Interesting question. Maris Otter is my base malt of choice and it is supposed to be "toasty".
For extra toasty flavours I would roast some base malt in the oven to get an Amber Malt. Say 170C for 25-35 mins. The Durden Park book also has some instructions for this process - lower temps and longer times.
I think Chocolate Malt at 17g is for colour, primarily, is my guess.

 

[Galena]

I think Chocolate Malt at 17g is for colour, primarily, is my guess.

I guess it must be, I use Maris Otter myself and I have some Amber in stock, perhaps better try it without first and see if I need the extra 'toastiness'

 

[Hop_it]

I really doubt very much if you will taste 17g in a 5kg mash. It's only there for the colour.

 

[Hop_it]

I really doubt very much if you will taste 17g in a 5kg mash. It's only there for the colour.

What I should also have said was that I have brewed quite a few beers over the years where the proportion of chocolate/roasted/black malt has been at a similar level, and I've brewed both with and without the small additions. I could never detect any difference in taste. I suspect that the batch to batch variability in base malt would be likely to have a more noticeable influence on the taste. . . . . . But perhaps if you are a "super taster" then possibly you might pick it up

 

[Galena]

But perhaps if you are a "super taster" then possibly you might pick it up

Certainly I am not a super taster, I suppose the best way would be to make a batch with and a batch without, but that's not an option at the moment, I agree that 17g is highly unlikely to make any difference to the taste.

 

[Irishwizard]

I think black and chocolate malts smell totally different, but used in small quantities you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. I had some dark malts and they were not labeled very well so I just bunged them all in one bag - lifes too short