Belgian Witbier vs German Weissbier

[Ajhutch]

Looking at brewing a wheat beer and I'm interested in people's views on the two different styles. So far as I can tell from the BJCP guidelines the main differences seem to be 1) that Wit would traditionally use unmalted wheat whereas Weiss would use wheat malt, and 2) Weiss relies on yeast character for spicy and other flavours whereas Wit would use additions.

On this basis I feel like I'd rather do a Wit and use a Belgian yeast which can tolerate fairly high temperatures and where temperature driven yeast character isn't crucial, as I have only rudimentary temperature control for fermentation (trug and ice packs) and its summer.

So far so good but I have a lot of questions, rhetorical or otherwise!

Does the unmalted wheat in Wit account for the fact Hooegarden and the like are quite hazy?
Unmalted doesn't necessarily mean raw or ungelatinised so can one use torrified wheat in a Wit?
Have I understood correctly that torrified wheat is gelatinised but not malted?
If using raw wheat would a protein rest be needed?

To confuse me even more, most of the first dozen or so shared recipes for Wits I looked at in BeerSmith include malted wheat. I'm feeling a bit lost at sea but really want to make a wheat beer for a party later in summer so any thoughts gratefully received!

 

[TheRedDarren]

Hi mate,

To be honest I didn't know those were the differences between Wiess and Wit beers but thinking about it, it does make sense.
Wiessbiers would be subject to the Rhineheitsgebot, so no spices etc, whereas the Belgians were a lot free-er with what went into their beers, so they experimented with spice, fruit etc...


Again I don't know about the malted vs unmalted wheat but I'd also say that is probably true, hence the haze in Witbier, like you say. One thing I will add is that a lot of haze comes from the yeast, not just the wheat.
For instance American style wheat beers drop crystal clear using a typical American ale yeast.

If you like I can give you the recipe I use for my Hoegaarden clone, I have to say it's pretty much bang on the mark. I can't really tell much difference apart from the obvious which is its a lot fresher.

 

[Covrich]

I made by witbier with flaked wheat I will warn you the efficiency drops a bit so try and factor that in..

I have never made a wiess but I hear people say its quite bannanery

My Wit is orangey and coriander with a hint of belgian funk in.. its refreshing.

 

[munkian]

Weissbier (white beer) is derived from the name Weizenbier where some of the barley is replaced with Wheat.

Witbier (white beer) is Belgian/Dutch and unlike Ze Germans are allowed additions to their beer.

So something like Hoegaarden is a Witbier and Erdinger is a Weiss/Weizenbier.

I think..

 

[YeastFace]

A solid grainbill for traditional Witbier is 50% Pilsner, 40% Flaked or Raw Wheat and 10% Flaked Oats. They will also typically have coriander seed and orange peel. Some also use grains of paradise (either in conjunction with the coriander, or in place of) and chamomile flowers. These spices should be used subtly, to enhance the yeast which will provide some fruity and spicy esters.

As mentioned above, the wheat used will lower efficiency.

For a traditional Hefewiezen, you're looking at 50/50 or 40/60 bill of Pilsner and Malted Wheat. The yeast will give off banana and clove-like esters.

Either style, you may use a touch of Vienna, Munich or Crystal-type malts to impart some colour.

The difference comes for the type of wheat used and the yeast which is one of the main features of these styles.

Some witbier recipes (my own included) will contain some malted wheat - this helps someway to resolve the efficieny issue. I don't think you'd want to replace more than 20% or so of the flaked wheat with malted - but hey, I'm sure many fine wits have been made with solely malted wheat.

 

[TheRedDarren]

Oh yea I forgot about the drop in efficiency... +1 on what Covrich said.
My efficiency drops from 81% to about 74% with wheat beers.

 

[didinho]

A solid grainbill for traditional Witbier is 50% Pilsner, 40% Flaked or Raw Wheat

if you use raw wheat you should cook it before, to gelatinize starch and make it soluble: it will be easier to convert by amylases then

 

[HebridesRob]

Torrified wheat is kind-of cooked. It's had hot air blown through to make it "pop" and open it out so the starch is more accessible.

 

[BeerCat]

I didn't realise you could use raw wheat. I always make mine 50% pale malt 50% wheat malt with coriander and orange peel. One thing have found out is you really need to keep the IBU's low as too much bitterness will overpower the taste of the yeast.

 

[markcc]

Witbiers can also have a bit of lactic sourness. Hoegaarden's a fairly bland beer these days, but Celis White gives you a better feel for what it was originally like.

 

[dad_of_jon]

or for extract fans....

2kg DWE
450g golden syrup
500g clear candi sugar
MJ bavarian M20
50g amarillo

dissolve syrup & sugar in 4 litres of water chucked hops in a bag 5 mins after flame out into boiled wort and left for 15 mins.
meanwhile dissolved 2kg of dwe in 6 litres or room temp water in to the fv.
Then added the boiled wort and hops to the fv.
topped up to 21.5litres
pitched rehydrated yeast at 30
ferment at 24

remove hop bag on day 5 - bottle on day 14 - drink from between day 21-28 onwards.

you'll get banana from the yeast and orange from the hops :-)

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