Before my first attempt some deliberations

[mirsultankhan]

Great ones!

This humble peasant farmer from Scotland casts himself upon your majesty and requires some guidance.

I plan on brewing a Scottish export 80/, i have been buying lots of Caledonian eighty schilling and Crabbies alcoholic ginger beer so i can have the necessary glass bottles ( i have an aversion to plastic ones) and I am nearly ready.

No it appears to me that there are different levels of brewing, please correct me if I am wrong,

1. One can do it really simply, buy a kit, add dextrose and yeast and let her ferment.
2. One can but an extract kit that has partially milled grains and hops and other stuff and add them at different time intervals to produce a more complex beer.
3.One can do it entirely from scratch by milling your own grains which creates a unique kind of beer.

Is it not so?

Now my questions .

1. Is there a great disparity in quality? Is a kit brewed with dextrose and the yeast that comes with the kit inherently inferior to one brewed with partially milled grains and added hops etc

2. Is there therefore a way to improve a standard kit. I have read that you can buy spray malted extract and substitute it for dextrose, say 50/50 which might fit the profile of the beer i want to make, for as you are aware Scottish export has as its backbone a sweetish malty taste rather than a bitter hoppy (is that even a word?)

Many thanks for taking the time - regards Robbie (mirsultankhan was a chess player in case anyone is wondering )

 

[Fil]

1) Yes, dextrose/sucrose will ferment all the way, leaving no body or mouth feel, just a thinner beer. kit yeasts are all fine yeasts, its not as if they use bread yeast but you can use one you know the qualities of if you want to. tho the impact on the brew will be more subtle than binning the white sugar products so use dme or lme and if you think there is still room for improvement look into the qualities you want from the yeast.

2) already answered...

 

[mirsultankhan]

ok thats very helpful, so if i want a more full bodied beer i should perhaps think of adding 0.5 kg of spray malted extract - regards robbie

 

[baggybill]

The good things about starting with a kit are:

• You get to learn all the basics e.g. sanitising, DME's, hydrometer's, yeasts and starters etc. plus... quick and easy.
• You have a basic benchmark in your taste buds of entry level homebrew.

You might want to take a look at Tesco's offer on their Young's Harvest Scottish Ale. Good reviews on their site, could do a lot worse!


Good luck (and welcome!) :drink:

 

[clibit]

There is a strong case for starting with kits to learn the basics. But I taught a mate to brew with grains, it's not really difficult, and he was hooked cos he was amazed how good the beer turned out.

You could do a half and half, or partial. Soak some grains, boil the wort with hops for an hour, stir some extract in at the end, cool and transfer to fv via a sieve, add water to chosen level, pitch yeast. The only issue is getting the bitterness right with only boiling about half the liquid, but follow the recipe and you won't be far off. A bit under, so you could increase the first batch of hops by 10%.

 

[mirsultankhan]

The good things about starting with a kit are:

• You get to learn all the basics e.g. sanitising, DME's, hydrometer's, yeasts and starters etc. plus... quick and easy.
• You have a basic benchmark in your taste buds of entry level homebrew.

You might want to take a look at Tesco's offer on their Young's Harvest Scottish Ale. Good reviews on their site, could do a lot worse!


Good luck (and welcome!) :drink:

hi Baggybill, thank you for the welcome, its very kind. I have brewed before, not beer but wine from raspberries and brambles, my father has been a home brewer for about forty years (he even built a still out of copper for distilling his but was aggrieved because he had to give so much volume initially to get so little distilled liquid), he never made beer though, just wine. I just want to make something palatable and tasty, a full bodied malty beer that i savour- many thanks for the reply - regards Robbie

 

[mirsultankhan]

There is a strong case for starting with kits to learn the basics. But I taught a mate to brew with grains, it's not really difficult, and he was hooked cos he was amazed how good the beer turned out.

You could do a half and half, or partial. Soak some grains, boil the wort with hops for an hour, stir some extract in at the end, cool and transfer to fv via a sieve, add water to chosen level, pitch yeast. The only issue is getting the bitterness right with only boiling about half the liquid, but follow the recipe and you won't be far off. A bit under, so you could increase the first batch of hops by 10%.

Yes i watched many youtube videos, mostly american where they steep grains in like a grain bag, but i can find no kits where you can like buy all the ingredients that you need, the malt, and hops and grains etc mostly what i can see are simply just malt extract and yeast and i don't want to add stuff that will potentially ruin it - kind regards Robbie

 

[mirsultankhan]

The good things about starting with a kit are:

• You get to learn all the basics e.g. sanitising, DME's, hydrometer's, yeasts and starters etc. plus... quick and easy.
• You have a basic benchmark in your taste buds of entry level homebrew.

You might want to take a look at Tesco's offer on their Young's Harvest Scottish Ale. Good reviews on their site, could do a lot worse!


Good luck (and welcome!) :drink:

WOW, i bought Youngs Harvest Scottish Ale, it was only £8.25p from Tesco and £3 to deliver it, thats amazing they are selling it elsewhere for £13-15, now i will just buy a bag of beer kit enhancer and make the golden nectar! it makes sense to start simple with my first go, many thanks Baggybill for the recommendation, many thanks indeed!

 

[clibit]

Yes i watched many youtube videos, mostly american where they steep grains in like a grain bag, but i can find no kits where you can like buy all the ingredients that you need, the malt, and hops and grains etc mostly what i can see are simply just malt extract and yeast and i don't want to add stuff that will potentially ruin it - kind regards Robbie

If you add grains and hops you will improve it.

 

[mirsultankhan]

If you add grains and hops you will improve it.

its quite interesting, from what I can discern Scottish Ale has traditionally relied upon malt for its flavour and not hops, i read that this was due to import duty on hops. Personally this suits my pallet because i don't really like a particularly bitter beer, but i do like a sweet malty beer with a creamy head and plenty of flavour.

The problem facing a total noob like myself is that I have no experience and therefore there is no real way of knowing how to go about adding what grains and what hops to get the flavour that i am after. Rather interestingly I was watching another video and the chap had a kit with two tins of malt extract (its was Milestone IPA I think) and I wondered if that would give the malty taste that I am after, he even added further DME a full KG and primed it with even more DME. When it poured the head looked rather thin but perhaps it was the way he poured it i dunno its hard to tell. He did not add any grains but added hops, twice, he boiled some for 15minutes and the other he boiled for about 5.

I also watched two videos of people making beer from grains and hops, was fascinating to be honest, one man in the south of England had home made equipment made out of copper pipe and was boiling grains and some Americans who were making beer outside and having tasting fairs and all kinds of good events. I find it hard to believe that you get the same amount of malt from an extract kit as you do from mashing grains, but it must be the case or maybe malt extract is not pure malt but a percentage of water and other stuff, I dunno.

 

[clibit]

Extract and grains can both make malty beers, but you get an improved malt flavour and aroma from grains. Hops also add flavour, the longer you boil them the more bitterness they add, and the more hop flavour and aroma are removed by evaporation. So we add hops at the start of the boil for bitterness and at the end of the boil for flavour and aroma. Find a recipe for a beer you like and follow it. There are extract recipes and all grain recipes. And partial mash recipe s, which mix the two.

 

[mirsultankhan]

Extract and grains can both make malty beers, but you get an improved malt flavour and aroma from grains. Hops also add flavour, the longer you boil them the more bitterness they add, and the more hop flavour and aroma are removed by evaporation. So we add hops at the start of the boil for bitterness and at the end of the boil for flavour and aroma. Find a recipe for a beer you like and follow it. There are extract recipes and all grain recipes. And partial mash recipe s, which mix the two.

An improved malt flavour you say, from grains, now isn't that interesting!!! I wonder if there is a Scottish Ale all grain recipe somewhere. Perhaps i can set the goal of doing a partial mash and then progress to all grain!

Many thanks for taking the time - regards Robbie

 

[Hopping_Mad]

Has anyone mentioned 'high end' kits where you don't need to add Brewers sugar?

These usually give better end results as you only use 3kg plus of malt extract. I've had some excellent results with these. Better mouthfeel, no homebrew 'twang' etc.

I used to not recommend kits with less than 3kg of liquid malt extract, but I've found a couple that are ok made with spraymalt and/or beer enhancer.

Personally, I wouldn't brew if my only options were All Grain or BIAB, as I just don't have the spare time - the results are definitely better, but good kits still get pretty good results.

 

[mirsultankhan]

Has anyone mentioned 'high end' kits where you don't need to add Brewers sugar?

These usually give better end results as you only use 3kg plus of malt extract. I've had some excellent results with these. Better mouthfeel, no homebrew 'twang' etc.

I used to not recommend kits with less than 3kg of liquid malt extract, but I've found a couple that are ok made with spraymalt and/or beer enhancer.

Personally, I wouldn't brew if my only options were All Grain or BIAB, as I just don't have the spare time - the results are definitely better, but good kits still get pretty good results.

Yes this is excellent, one of the videos i was watching was a 3KG kit, I was amazed when the fellow put two tins of malt in his fermentation vessel and then added even more! this sounds delicious to be honest, have you any recommendations just out of interest? - regards Robbie

 

[mirsultankhan]

An improved malt flavour you say, from grains, now isn't that interesting!!! I wonder if there is a Scottish Ale all grain recipe somewhere. Perhaps i can set the goal of doing a partial mash and then progress to all grain!

Many thanks for taking the time - regards Robbie

BTW I learned today what the difference is between doing a mini mash and steeping, apparently has to do with starch being turned into fermentable sugars in the former and simply for taste and aroma in the case of the latter

 

[Hopping_Mad]

All the Festival kits have given me excellent results - I've done the Golden Stag, the Pilgrims Hope and the Landlords Finest.

The Youngs Craft American range are good, I've done the Pale Ale and the Amber Ale.

Bulldogs IPA was quite nice.

I was not a fan of Woodfordes Wherry. Took too long to condition and was average. A better but similar beer (copper ale) was Milestones Lions Pride. Their stout is shaping up nicely too. When I drank the trial jar on Monday when bottling, I nearly had a, albeit flat, pint!!! :lol:

I haven't made one, but people rave about Brupaks kits too.

 

[Daveg]

An improved malt flavour you say, from grains, now isn't that interesting!!! I wonder if there is a Scottish Ale all grain recipe somewhere. Perhaps i can set the goal of doing a partial mash and then progress to all grain!

Many thanks for taking the time - regards Robbie

IMHO If you've got the time, space and inclination Just jump straight to all grain, You can still brew the odd kit if you want. A small outlay and a little skill (and all the help you'll ever need from this forum) will produce outstanding beer, whatever your taste. There's loads of recipes about but beware once you've dipped your toe into the "Dark Side" you'll get dragged in and never look back. You'll be upgrading to SS then HERMs or RIMs blah, blah, blah. Wonderful hobby.

 

[mirsultankhan]

IMHO If you've got the time, space and inclination Just jump straight to all grain, You can still brew the odd kit if you want. A small outlay and a little skill (and all the help you'll ever need from this forum) will produce outstanding beer, whatever your taste. There's loads of recipes about but beware once you've dipped your toe into the "Dark Side" you'll get dragged in and never look back. You'll be upgrading to SS then HERMs or RIMs blah, blah, blah. Wonderful hobby.

I have been watching and digesting a lot of information about all grain brewing. Some people boiled the grains and hops other simply poured very hot water on them and left them in the mash tun for a specific time, usually more than an hour or so.

I wonder about the cost effectiveness of going all grain, for perhaps in the USA grains are cheaper, for many of the recipes i looked at called for at least 8lbs, about 4kgs of base grain, which in the UK is costlier than an extract malt and one has all the other grains and ingredients on top of that. Its not that its prohibitive just whether the extra cost is worth it in terms of the superiority of finished beer. If so then all is good and well. If the disparity is minimal then perhaps its not so, although i must admit that reducing an art form like all grain brewing to monetary terms is really crass and I apologise for it.

 

[Fil]

imho to brew ag all the extra kit you need is something big enough to boil the beer in and a bag to contain grains in. after brewing kits you have everything else you NEED.

borrow a 20l or so stockpot from someone if you dont have one, and brew up a 10l biab brew, small enough not to need extra equipment, and large enough to give you some beer. there is a lot more time elapsed than time spent doing stuff and it can be a long day (more equipment more to clean)

personally i think you will apreciate the difference in the beer, im biased but imho with kits you can brew a beer as good as a comercial offering,
ag brews can set the standard higher. otherwise folk wouldnt devote a day to the job (can be 6-7hours elapsed from throwing the heating switch) time spent doing stuff is less, lots of opportunities to sit back

 

[clibit]

OK, you could do a Scottish Ale kit:

http://www.tesco.com/direct/youngs-harvest-scottish-ale-40pt/213-6222.prd

They deliver free to your nearest store.




OR you could do an extract plus steeping grains brew:

http://www.jaysbrewing.com/2012/08/01/a-must-make-scottish-beer/


Or you could do a partial mash:

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2160-the-brothers-reid-scottish-ale