Bag in a Box - Any good?

[Binkei Huckaback]

I've used both. Polypins with a beer engine and bag-in-a-box sat in the fridge.

Polypins are great and as I've mentioned before, there's an excellent thread about their use on another forum. However, I was never as satisfied with polypins as bottles.

I've only used bag-in-a-box once and have to say I was very impressed with the result, possibly because brew day had been a disaster and I didn't want to waste time cleaning bottles and by the time I got around to using it, I'd already decided to give kegs a go.

I think I'm right in saying that bag-in-a-box is less gas permeable than polypins, so there's less chance of oxygen creeping in if you need to condition for a long time. Should you want to dispense with a beer engine, you can buy an adapter to fit over the tap.

The only downside I can see is that they're single use, which is, in no particular order, bad for the environment and for your pocket, though I have heard of people using them a couple of times.

 

[trueblue]

Hi Trueblue,

Hi Trueblue, is that 3~4 weeks after you pull the 1st pint?

Yes

 

[Supernova]

I've used both. Polypins with a beer engine and bag-in-a-box sat in the fridge.

Polypins are great and as I've mentioned before, there's an excellent thread about their use on another forum. However, I was never as satisfied with polypins as bottles.

I've only used bag-in-a-box once and have to say I was very impressed with the result, possibly because brew day had been a disaster and I didn't want to waste time cleaning bottles and by the time I got around to using it, I'd already decided to give kegs a go.

I think I'm right in saying that bag-in-a-box is less gas permeable than polypins, so there's less chance of oxygen creeping in if you need to condition for a long time. Should you want to dispense with a beer engine, you can buy an adapter to fit over the tap.

The only downside I can see is that they're single use, which is, in no particular order, bad for the environment and for your pocket, though I have heard of people using them a couple of times.

Hi Andy do you know what the adapter is called that you can use for the bag in box onto beer engine please.. Just bought both and only been putting tube into top of bag which doesn't work great

 

[Moe]

Hi Andy do you know what the adapter is called that you can use for the bag in box onto beer engine please.. Just bought both and only been putting tube into top of bag which doesn't work great

https://rlbs.ltd.uk/bag-in-box-tap-connector-for-3-8-id-tube.html
These ones


Or eBay so you don’t pay the shipping:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38365957...rDqhxITSVG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[stroboscope]

I used polypins for a while, but was never 100% happy with the results (I suspect a conditiong issue as the few litres I bottled every batch was much better). A member of another fourm has an excellent polypin guide. I don't kniw if I'm allowed to post a link to it here, so PM me if you'd like the info.

Dads_ales guide is very informative and I'm sure there's another good one here too.

I have a 'disaster' beer in a bag-in-a-box which is refusing to carbonate and I'll post anything of interest.

Hi! I've just joined the forum but can't find a way to PM. Binkei, are you still around? I'd be very interested in that guide, if we can find a way for you to share a link.

 

[stroboscope]

If anyone is still reading this thread and has any ideas... :)

My number one dream as a homebrewer is to find a way to carbonate and dispense my beer without bottling or using a CO2 system, so I've become really tempted since I first heard about polypins. I wouldn't want to be limited to cask ale levels of carbonation, though – I'd like to go as high as standard IPAs (c. 2.5 vol). I've found several threads online, but all a little inconclusive on whether polypins can withstand the pressure, and how long a batch would last inside. Any views would be welcome! My intention is to let gravity do the job – no hand pumps.

I'll probably end up ordering a polypin and trying it myself, but before that I'm going even more budget-friendly and will put a simple DME brew into a 5L collapsible water container (PE plastic) with enough sugar to reach 2.5 vol, keep it away from any valuables, and see what happens. I'll report back – watch this space!

 

[The Baron]

I think you can not PM a member until you have done so many post.
I am sure Chippy will correct me but from memory I think 10 posts are required

 

[jof]

will put a simple DME brew into a 5L collapsible water container (PE plastic) with enough sugar to reach 2.5 vol, keep it away from any valuables, and see what happens. I'll report back – watch this space!

Are you sure you want to start with 2.5 vol?
Normally if youre going to do destructive testing you start lower & build up. It costs less in replacement equipment.

Looking at my ancient concertina camping water container, I'm not sure if it would split along the folds or go at the tap connector first.

 

[stroboscope]

Good point, I'll try with something like 2.0 vol first. I'm not big into cask ales, so anything lower than that wouldn't be much use in my case.

 

[Caramel Ox]

I could be wrong but I don’t see how any flexible bag can maintain carbonation- only the first pint will have your target level, after that co2 will come out of solution into the space created in the bag.

 

[jof]

I could be wrong but I don’t see how any flexible bag can maintain carbonation- only the first pint will have your target level, after that co2 will come out of solution into the space created in the bag.

There is a more complex solution to this. I think I've seen it in another thread about beer in a bag.

You put beer in bag inside a pressure vessel.
Rest of pressure vessel is filled with a balloon that you can pump up with a bike pump (no expensive co2, just a bit of elbow grease)
You pump to provide serving pressure & counter the co2 coming out of solution in the beer bag.

But that's a lot of hassle & who's going to be in charge of inflation after about 3 pints?

 

[Moe]

I think a water carrier would split, they’re not designed for pressure.

Wouldn’t you be better with a pressure barrel to reach that level of carbonation?
https://brew2bottle.co.uk/collections/home-brew-pressure-barrels

You would still need co2 to fill the headspace as you drink the beer though. But you could use the 16g co2 bulbs.

 

[Jahfish]

I have been experimenting with bag in a box for a while please read on:

Firstly these are designed for bright beer or low carb beverages such as wine or cider. In this respect they work fine. If you get one from your local brewery (shameless plug for Rebellion in Marlow here) then they usually have a shelf life of 7 days and 3 or 4 once started.

The problem in a homebrew environment is that they are not designed to take any pressure. So as they come are not much good for secondary fermentation (conditioning). the website does say it can be done by loosely fitting the tap and releasing pressure as it build up. I have a problem with this in that if you keep releasing pressure then your beer will be flat. Plus the inner bag is, apparently, gas permeable so any gas gets between the inner and outer bag and when you try and release pressure you get a fountain of beer..... bin there done that.

So I had bought 20 5 litre bags so was not going to give up. Next came reinforcing the box with cable ties. This allowed me to carry out secondary fermentation in the bag. It did end up like a football but no leaks.

This gave reasonable carbonation similar to that from real ale in a pub.

I have done this several times now and have managed to reuse the cardboard box several times. As for how long the beer last I have not managed to get it past a week without drinking it all.:drink:

Next project is to build a solid box and try again.

I will continue with these as they fit on the top shelf on my beer fridge that is too short for bottles.

Oh and you can connect to a beer engine.

I remember Dave Line suggested replacing the tap with a ferm lock, place it at the top obviously

 

[Galena]

Not sure if this will help but this 2 part video from The Craft Beer Channel is where he home brews a cask ale and puts it in a bag in a box. HERE

 

[stroboscope]

I think a water carrier would split, they’re not designed for pressure.

Wouldn’t you be better with a pressure barrel to reach that level of carbonation?
https://brew2bottle.co.uk/collections/home-brew-pressure-barrels

You would still need co2 to fill the headspace as you drink the beer though. But you could use the 16g co2 bulbs.

This is a very interesting idea. Has anyone tried carbonating inside one of these using priming sugar, and then using one of the CO2 bulbs only for serving? Is that relatively straightforward?

I have one of these mini-kegs (https://www.darkfarm.co.uk/product/...ni-keg-with-fixed-tap-flow-control-co2-valve/), but find it quite difficult to operate. I often can't get any beer out of it at all, and can never be sure whether the bulb is empty or is there something else going on (the meter on the CO2 valve isn't much use). For that same reason I've long given up force-carbonating.

These pressure barrels look like the same principle, but simpler. I'm just looking for a straightforward way to serve beer, no need for bells and whistles! I'd need to find a 5 litre one, though – seems they all start at 10l, which won't fit in the fridge...

 

[Caramel Ox]

This is a very interesting idea. Has anyone tried carbonating inside one of these using priming sugar, and then using one of the CO2 bulbs only for serving? Is that relatively straightforward?

I have one of these mini-kegs (https://www.darkfarm.co.uk/product/...ni-keg-with-fixed-tap-flow-control-co2-valve/), but find it quite difficult to operate. I often can't get any beer out of it at all, and can never be sure whether the bulb is empty or is there something else going on (the meter on the CO2 valve isn't much use). For that same reason I've long given up force-carbonating.

These pressure barrels look like the same principle, but simpler. I'm just looking for a straightforward way to serve beer, no need for bells and whistles! I'd need to find a 5 litre one, though – seems they all start at 10l, which won't fit in the fridge...

That is how pressure barrels are used normally, only a little co2 needed. You need to be careful about leaks, there are threads about them.