Attenuation Vs pitch rate or other thoughts?

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... and maybe that statement illustrates what I think is the problem ... too much emphasis on brewery engineering, and not enough on brewing :confused.: ...

... so here's a thought, if setting your Robobrew to mash at 69C consistently results in FGs of 1.007-8 when you were hoping for 1.010-12 ... why not try setting your Robobrew to mash at 71-72C :?: ... and if that still gets you too low an FG try a bit higher again ... and leave all this calibrating thermometers and trying to understand where temperature differentials emanate from, till when you've got a pint of American Amber/Best Bitter with an FG=1.0010-12, like you want it, in your hand acheers.

Cheers, PhilB
Good plan👍🤞🍺
 
Okay! Where'd I leave off? We've got more from @strange-steve and @Sadfield emphasising what a can-of-worms yeast attenuation is. I'm glad I've got all that out the way in my last post as it should be obvious how that subject can descend into blazing rows (I've done enough of them in the past!). So here I'm working on mash temperature and fermentability:

Starting with that Brulosophy experiment with high and low mash temp. I read that a while back and immediately fell out with any Brulosophy article as a result. Try mashing brews at 62C and 72C (it is quite feasible to mash at these temperatures; I know because I do it), compare the results and try saying there is no difference!

But it can illustrate what I think is the problem. How does anyone know the mash is at these temperatures?

With "one-pot" solutions the temperature probe is in the space with the element. The system even has a by-pass so you can't be sure the recycled flow is actually running through the mash bed. And if the recycled flow isn't over-flowing into the by-pass, you can get "channelling" (wort taking the line of least resistance) so temperature in the mash bed is inconsistent. So dealing with the first of these issues:

Always throttle back the recirculating flow (I generally halve it) so the by-pass is never in play. The pumps are impeller types and not troubled by throttling the output (with a tap will do, don't stop the flow though!). The pumps are troubled by throttling the input, but one-pot systems do not have such an option (to my knowledge).

The second issue is harder to deal with. Channelling also means dipping a thermometer into the mash bed isn't very reliable. Step one is ensure you start with the right temperature throughout the mash bed. And that means the right strike temperature.

Whoa! I've got controversial! I have a Grainfather one-pot system and it's instructions for use has no concept of "strike temperature" and I assume other systems to be the same (?): It is expected that recirculation will restore the mash temperature in short order. Will it? The thermometer will certainly show a quick return to mash temperature. Reassuring, but is it reflecting the temperature throughout the mash bed? I think not!

It's not difficult to use "strike temperature" with one-pot systems, but it probably requires a bit of imagination to apply it. Once the grain is all mixed and if the strike temperature was well calculated the system should hold that temperature pretty well (Step two). Critical temperature steps are probably best avoided for the same reason, but a "mash out" is not a critical step (more controversy), just ensure the step has some dwell time to at least try to allow the mash bed to catch up.



Footnote: Where I'm coming from. My "other" system is a 70L 3V HERMS brewery with lots of temperature monitors, so I feel well immersed in the temperature goings on of mash tuns! That said, it has an annoying "feature" of having very slow convergence between set temperature and mash temperature. Working on that just gives me more idea of how to manage mash tun temperatures.

good to read that. I have a BM and was exchanging dozens of emails with spiedal about temperature drift when I first started. I think I got confused because they wouldn’t admit any fault in design and therefore I took the temp reading as gospel. For example A mash set at 64 but it was showing 69. It most likely was 65 but the probe was yet to catch up.

ive also found that now, especially if using lots of Maris otter etc, mashing at 63, keeps a good flavour, delivers great efficiency and avoids too much of the residual sweetness.

given that bruphosphey experiment that you mention though ( no difference in taste but a not insignificant difference in abv) plus a chat I had with a brewer, the next time I want to brew a 4 % or lower Seesion ipa.p I wil try mashing and 70 and use a dry finishing yeast.

given that Dave, the OP was getting over attenuation i reckon mashing at the very high 60s could be his answer.
 
Ok you bunch of scientific nerds, I’m jumping in with two Dock Martin’s half tied
MY beers NEVER end up lower than 1010
Ever
Where am I going wrong (please be kind and gentle to a simpleton BIAB brewer)
Thanks
 
Ok you bunch of scientific nerds, I’m jumping in with two Dock Martin’s half tied
MY beers NEVER end up lower than 1010
Ever
Where am I going wrong (please be kind and gentle to a simpleton BIAB brewer)
Thanks

Why do you feel this is wrong?

What styles? yeast used? etc...
 
I’ve never mashed at 62
Maybe I’m way off the mark but I usually mash at 65-67
I’ve always used dried yeasts also, will liquid yeasts bring a better result?
 
Tested my manual electronic thermometer- it's within 0.5 degrees on the boiling and ice water so seems accurate enough to me. This is the same difference on wort coming from the recirculation pipe on the Robobrew...atleast some consistency.
 
I don’t
It’s just I regularly read people saying my beer finished at 1006-1008 and I think f***k, How?
Styles-all
Yeast- everything dry
Might be time for a new hydrometer!
1.006-1.008 is low for most styles and starting gravities.
 
I only started to get that low with standard dried yeasts when step mashing

last two beers for example
1.040-1.008 (included 13% of invert though!) windsor+us05 30mins@64c 30mins@72c
1.048-1.008 K97 - longer beta rest
 
I also hardly ever get an FG below 1010 but it could be that is my last measurement as I tend to give fermentation 7 days and no bubbles. I might leave a brew for 10 or 14 days and recheck.
 
I don’t
It’s just I regularly read people saying my beer finished at 1006-1008 and I think f***k, How?
Styles-all
Yeast- everything dry
Might be time for a new hydrometer!


Personally, I would for most styles rather be on your end of the scale (which I am 1010-1016 mostly) rather than 1006..

Like others have said, it is only for the likes of Saison which will eat half of my kitchen fridge if I let it.. which gets that low.
 

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