Are you sure this is a west coast ipa?

[stigman]

I had to laugh today. Went shopping with SWMBO and the kids, and as you do I sloped off taking my littlle lad for a drink (letting her have some proper shopping time with the girls) . We Went to mobberly brew house bar In Stockport decent looking selection on the boards so I went for half a west coast ipa and half a dipa, my five year old boy ordered a tonic water don't ask . Beers came to the table and as I'm paying took a sip and I'm like "are you sure this is a west coast ipa? Tastes like a pilsner" the guy was adamant it was checked with his colleague who agreed "yes i poured it, it's definitely the west coast" I begrudgingly said oh its OK I'll have it anyway, it's just it tastes more like a hoppy pilsner than a west coast ipa"
Five minutes later a different guy comes out all apologetic "sorry pal its my fault I cleaned the lines last night changed the keg and didn't tell anybody, you keep that and I'll get you the westy you asked for" comes back out with a free pint and a bag of crisps (happy days)
I'm left wondering how many people would have just sat there drinking pilsner thinking ooh this is a lovely ipa let's av a few more.

 

[Clint]

Lots of people would have I recon..good on ya for putting em right.

 

[AdeDunn]

Anybody who drinks in Green King pubs and thinks that their IPA is an actual IPA? lol Nah, they wouldn't be ordering a West Coast IPA..... lol

 

[Clint]

It's the juice out of a very full bin...

 

[Adam0909]

How was the beer in there? I went in a few times when it had just opened, and the beer had a strange 'fairy liquid' taste. Gave it a few attempts, but it put me off in the end and not been back since

 

[stigman]

How was the beer in there? I went in a few times when it had just opened, and the beer had a strange 'fairy liquid' taste. Gave it a few attempts, but it put me off in the end and not been back since

Beers were all really good to be fair. Even the pilsner

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Anybody who drinks in Green King pubs and thinks that their IPA is an actual IPA? lol Nah, they wouldn't be ordering a West Coast IPA..... lol

Well I order plenty of WCIPA and I know that Greene King IPA is an actual IPA, as does anyone who knows their beer history.

It's weird, people would never insist that a mild should be pale and 7-8% like they were in the 19th century, but IPA is expecting to be frozen in time since then. Or do you think that the Black Country knows nothing about "actual mild".....

@Adam0909 Fairy liquid either suggests that they're not washing the glasses properly or they're using a lot of hops like Centennial which some people perceive as very soapy - how are you on something like Track Sonoma?

 

[stigman]

Well I order plenty of WCIPA and I know that Greene King IPA is an actual IPA, as does anyone who knows their beer history.

It's weird, people would never insist that a mild should be pale and 7-8% like they were in the 19th century, but IPA is expecting to be frozen in time since then. Or do you think that the Black Country knows nothing about "actual mild".....

@Adam0909 Fairy liquid either suggests that they're not washing the glasses properly or they're using a lot of hops like Centennial which some people perceive as very soapy - how are you on something like Track Sonoma?

Greene king may technically be an IPA but it doesn't stop it being **** does it?

 

[AdeDunn]

Well I order plenty of WCIPA and I know that Greene King IPA is an actual IPA, as does anyone who knows their beer history.

It's weird, people would never insist that a mild should be pale and 7-8% like they were in the 19th century, but IPA is expecting to be frozen in time since then. Or do you think that the Black Country knows nothing about "actual mild".....

@Adam0909 Fairy liquid either suggests that they're not washing the glasses properly or they're using a lot of hops like Centennial which some people perceive as very soapy - how are you on something like Track Sonoma?

Actually, I do know my beer history, and originally IPA was pale ale, quite highly hopped and higher ABV to be shipped to India, where upon arrival some would then be watered down to be given to the lower ranks, whilst the upper ranks would drink it full strength. I can read books too funnily enough, or did you just find out off Google?

As to beers evolving, that's fine, so long as they don't taste like pee at the end. As once they taste like pee you may as well just drink pee right? If you are happy with breweries that just brew beer as cheaply as possible in order to maximise profit, by cutting back on hops as far as they can, and reducing the malt they use too, so that the end product ends up really watery and flavourless, and then claiming that's the evolution of the style, well you may as well go drink some Watneys or Fizzy Toby bitter....I love a nice AIPA or APA though, and quite enjoy tweaking "styles" like a porter made with new world hops and kveik yeast, but they don't come out tasting like ditch water, if they did I'd pour them down the drain, which is where GK IPA belongs.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Actually, I do know my beer history, and originally IPA was pale ale, quite highly hopped and higher ABV to be shipped to India, where upon arrival some would then be watered down to be given to the lower ranks, whilst the upper ranks would drink it full strength. I can read books too funnily enough, or did you just find out off Google?

You know less than you think, or at least need better books - historically IPA was typically one of the lower ABV beers in a brewer's range, somewhere around 1.055 OG was usual. The 1901 Boddington's IPA is typical - and turned into the 3.8% Bitter we know today, it was still known as IP within the brewery until at least the Whitbread era.

There's no evidence that IPA was ever watered down for the the lower ranks - they drank porter.

As to beers evolving, that's fine, so long as they don't taste like pee at the end.

Nice switch, but that's a separate argument. Anyone used to 19th century mild would argue that all modern West Midlands milds are "pee" in comparison, but if that's what people enjoy then I'm not going to tell them they're wrong on stylistic grounds.

 

[MickDundee]

Well I order plenty of WCIPA and I know that Greene King IPA is an actual IPA, as does anyone who knows their beer history.

It's weird, people would never insist that a mild should be pale and 7-8% like they were in the 19th century, but IPA is expecting to be frozen in time since then. Or do you think that the Black Country knows nothing about "actual mild".....

@Adam0909 Fairy liquid either suggests that they're not washing the glasses properly or they're using a lot of hops like Centennial which some people perceive as very soapy - how are you on something like Track Sonoma?

BJCP lists GKIPA as a commercial example of an ordinary bitter.

 

[Clint]

I've tried the stuff...in the pub and from cans..it was dreadful. I've even tried it in other pubs just in case...it was still not good.
In fact...next time I'm in the supermarket I might get some and do a forum taste test...or something...I really don't fancy buying four cans though. It's as bad as or nearly as bad as Boddingtons...and that's really rubbish. My mate left a can here in March...it's still in the cupboard...

 

[stigman]

Citra mosaic and sabro neipa 450g total. I've absolutely nailed this one there's probably more hops in 20L than a full batch of green king

 

[Ajhutch]

I had to laugh today. Went shopping with SWMBO and the kids, and as you do I sloped off taking my littlle lad for a drink (letting her have some proper shopping time with the girls) . We Went to mobberly brew house bar In Stockport decent looking selection on the boards so I went for half a west coast ipa and half a dipa, my five year old boy ordered a tonic water don't ask . Beers came to the table and as I'm paying took a sip and I'm like "are you sure this is a west coast ipa? Tastes like a pilsner" the guy was adamant it was checked with his colleague who agreed "yes i poured it, it's definitely the west coast" I begrudgingly said oh its OK I'll have it anyway, it's just it tastes more like a hoppy pilsner than a west coast ipa"
Five minutes later a different guy comes out all apologetic "sorry pal its my fault I cleaned the lines last night changed the keg and didn't tell anybody, you keep that and I'll get you the westy you asked for" comes back out with a free pint and a bag of crisps (happy days)
I'm left wondering how many people would have just sat there drinking pilsner thinking ooh this is a lovely ipa let's av a few more.

Your Westy sir

 

[stigman]

Thank you pal don't find many of those in Stockport town Centre.

 

[AdeDunn]

You know less than you think, or at least need better books - historically IPA was typically one of the lower ABV beers in a brewer's range, somewhere around 1.055 OG was usual. The 1901 Boddington's IPA is typical - and turned into the 3.8% Bitter we know today, it was still known as IP within the brewery until at least the Whitbread era.

There's no evidence that IPA was ever watered down for the the lower ranks - they drank porter.



Nice switch, but that's a separate argument. Anyone used to 19th century mild would argue that all modern West Midlands milds are "pee" in comparison, but if that's what people enjoy then I'm not going to tell them they're wrong on stylistic grounds.

Porter predates IPA by quite a long period of time, you need to do more reading. Pales developed as a style much later and gained way more popularity once glass became cheaper and drinking vessels stopped been opaque, and also malt changed too. You should rely on google less and read more books that actually detail brewing history.

As to evidence, well, other than anecdotal passed down through my family from my mother's uncles who served in the Raj, they diluted spirits too incidentally. Dilution was a common practice in the military back then, but whatever you want to think you know...

 

[Drunkula]

Here's some fun reading.

http://zythophile.co.uk/2008/06/30/ipa-incredibly-poor-article/
Ron Pattinson was having a wee rant about the Oxford Companion to Beer just making stuff up on a BeerSmith podcast. All his episodes are worth listening to because he gets sick and tired of so many things. This is the sort of righteous anger I love :

http://zythophile.co.uk/2011/10/19/the-oxford-companion-to-beer-a-dreadful-disaster/

 

[Sadfield]

Thank you pal don't find many of those in Stockport town Centre.

Eyt! Stockport town centre is more Westside than Westvleteren.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Porter predates IPA by quite a long period of time, you need to do more reading. Pales developed as a style much later and gained way more popularity once glass became cheaper and drinking vessels stopped been opaque, and also malt changed too. You should rely on google less and read more books that actually detail brewing history.

Actually pale ale goes way back to the beginnings of brewing - sun/wind-dried malt is pale, and seems to have been widespread from early times, and not just in hot climates. Straw was also used to kiln pale malt. In terms of beers that were made in sufficient quantities to be go down in history as a "style", Kuit/koyt was a pale beer from the Low Countries that came in around the end of the 14th century.

William Harrison in 1577 distinguishes between wood-dried malt and straw-dried :
"The best malt is tried by the hardness and colour; for, if it look fresh with a yellow hue, and thereto will write like a piece of chalk, after you have bitten a kernel in sunder in the midst, then you may assure yourself that it is dried down. In some places it is dried at leisure with wood alone or straw alone, in others with wood and straw together; but, of all, the straw dried is the most excellent. For the wood-dried malt when it is brewed, beside that the drink is higher of colour, it doth hurt and annoy the head of him that is not used thereto, because of the smoke."

Not long after maltsters around Derby seem to have pioneered the use of coke to dry pale malt, and coke largely replaced straw in coal-mining areas within a century or so. The West Country used wood (and their beers had a terrible reputation as a result), around London straw was used for the posh pale stuff and wood for the cheaper brown malt. But no, pale beers did not develop out of nowhere in the 19th century.

And just because beers develop at different times, does not mean they cannot coexist - otherwise by your logic it would be impossible to have porter and a hazy at the same time. There's plenty of evidence of ordinary troops being given porter at the height of the Empire - for instance this government report of 1863 says "the usual issue is one quart of porter and one dram" (p225) and "It is difficult to keep imported ale from England. Porter keeps better." (p229)

As to evidence, well, other than anecdotal passed down through my family from my mother's uncles who served in the Raj, they diluted spirits too incidentally. Dilution was a common practice in the military back then, but whatever you want to think you know...

Of course the British military diluted spirits, the dilution of rum to make grog was part of Royal Navy regulations from the 1750s. But there's just no real historical evidence at the height of the Raj for "official" dilution of pale ales for the troops, but plenty of evidence of porter being bought for export to India, and for its distribution to the troops out there. Dilution being carried out for crooked commercial purposes is another matter, but that's something that has always happened on civvy street, never mind the military.

 

[MickDundee]

How did a thread about a pub serving the wrong beer turn into a beer history dick measuring contest?