Are Liquid yeasts a bit of a fad?

[Brewmarc]

Do liquid yeasts at nearly three times the price of dried really make a difference? I must confess to using Wyeast & Whitelabs liquid yeast in my quest to produce spacific ales & largers such as belgian ales ect :wha: , but i have also cultured yeasts for free with good results. :thumb: but dried yeast aththough perfectly adiquate seem to be badly labled for the inexperienced brewer :wha: i.e me. e.g. If you were brewing an english bitter in the style of London pride, Wyeast London ale yeast may seem a better bet than a dried ale yeast packet stuck to a kit, or muntons ale yeast,S04 nottingham, windsor ect but is there a real difference?

 

[Wez]

Cracking question...

I might add a poll if thats OK?

Personally I had a bad experience with WLP007 and have not tried liquid again yet I use mostly S04, Nottingham or US-05

 

[Brewmarc]

Great idea to add a pole :thumb: I have heard some horror stories about liquid yeasts & indeed you have to be extra vigelent witn sanitation

 

[Alestar]

What problems do people have with liquid yeast?

I use White Labs (often doubling up on yeast by pitching a new beer onto the yeast cake in the secondary, although I have stored a vialful successfully before too). First thing on brewday I whack some DME into a small saucepan pan and boil it up in some water. After leaving the pan to cool in some cold water in the sink, the yeast goes straight in from the fridge and the lid goes on. One brewday (usually six hours or so) later, the contents of the saucepan get pitched into the wort. Never, touch wood, had any problems whatsoever with this method. Fermentation is always pretty quick to get going and usually corresponds to the "tasting notes" on the yeast label, so I'm happy with it.

Thumbs up from me.

 

[Wez]

What problems do people have with liquid yeast?

I use White Labs (often doubling up on yeast by pitching a new beer onto the yeast cake in the secondary, although I have stored a vialful successfully before too). First thing on brewday I whack some DME into a small saucepan pan and boil it up in some water. After leaving the pan to cool in some cold water in the sink, the yeast goes straight in from the fridge and the lid goes on. One brewday (usually six hours or so) later, the contents of the saucepan get pitched into the wort. Never, touch wood, had any problems whatsoever with this method. Fermentation is always pretty quick to get going and usually corresponds to the "tasting notes" on the yeast label, so I'm happy with it.

Thumbs up from me.

Great - thats the sort of feedback I hoped we'd get on this thread :grin: (i've stickied it so it gets everyones attention)

 

[bolty]

I have only used 1 liquid yeast so far (Wyeast Scottish Ale 1728), and it did lead to a really nice beer. I think with me it depends really on the style and if a standard Notty or such just wont work. It may just be me being a bit cheap though. :hmm:

 

[tubby_shaw]

My preference is for specified liquid yeast cultures :thumb:
But I don't use them nearly enough mainly due to availability and the fact that I only tend to decide on my recipe on the day or the day before :whistle:
But, when I do brew with a specific yeast culture I make a point of bottling a few so that I can reculture from the bottle at a later date :grin:

 

[dennisking]

Big fan of liquid yeast and prefere white labs over wyeast. I start 1 vial and split into 6 so price does not come into it. Dont see the extra work as a problem to me its just a part of the brewing process and takes very little extra time. It is worth doing because I get a far better beer. No horror stories to tell either.

 

[arturobandini]

I think liquid yeasts are spot on for clone beers or beers in the genre/style of etc etc. Personally as I tend to like dry crisp IPA's or similar I can get away with using a good attenuating yeast with little character to let hops and dryness flood to the foreground. This means I can use dried yeasts like US-05 and my new potential favourite the characterless Nottingham! If I was making something special like a Fullers ESB, Belgian Wit or whatever then I would source a special yeast to fit the character void the beer could have by using dried.



Edited it a little to make more sense (Day out in Southport fried my brain a little)

 

[dennisking]

I think liquid yeasts are spot for clone beers or beers in the genre/style of. Personally as I tend to like dry crisp IPA's or similar I can get away with using a good attenuating yeast with little character to let hops and dryness flood to the foreground. This means I can get away with using dry like US-05 and my new potential favourite the characterless Nottingham! If I was making something special like a Fullers ESB, Belgian Wit or whatever then I would source a special yeast to fit the character void the beer could have by using dried

Agree with about a yeast to fit the beer. At the moment I`m using White labs Essex which is supposed to be The Ridleys strain. So using the Homebrewers recipe database I plan to clone thier Rumpus, ESX best and IPA [have tried this one with White labs British and that was good].

 

[arturobandini]

Top point about splitting up the liquid yeasts and spreading the cost over a number of brews Dennis. You can even , as has been suggested above, just pitch on top of the yeast slurry of a previous beer to stretch the cost another way. I definitely agree that for ease and general usage there is nothing wrong with dried yeasts and in a lot of cases I absolutely prefer them.

(Dennis, any chance of you putting up a guide to the use of Polypins on the forum? I happen to know you've got top tips and experience on their use)

 

[Brewmarc]

Thats brillliant Alestar :thumb: gives the yeast a head start I will try this in future :thumb: I am a big fan of culturing yeast from the bottle to spread cost & will also try splitting top tip Dennis :thumb: :thumb: but I have read that there is a limit to how many times you can do this (Reculturing that is) something to do with scaring of the yeast cell during reproduction & eventually the yeast becoming unviable or something like that (Help "Aleman" :grin: ) also though I could be wrong but I dont beleave there is much choice in the way of dried yeast for specialty beers, somehow I dont think a belgian ale would be the same with an ordenary dry yest or would it?

 

[llannige]

Used a Brewlab's Burton yeast on a Burton bitter for the first time a couple of brews ago.
This was the one and only time I never used a dry yeast and I can honestly say its my best all round brew so far. :thumb:

Have just placed another order with them.

 

[Brewmarc]

been meaning to try brewlabs cultures are they easy to use

 

[jamesb]

I've been sniffing around the idea of playing with liquid yeasts ever since I attended a lecture or two by Chris White (Whitelabs) earlier in the year. The price puts me off a bit - although the Brewlab ones are cheaper. I realise that I can split them and use them for more than one brew, but my fridge is minging most of the time

Definately on the todo list though.

 

[llannige]

been meaning to try brewlabs cultures are they easy to use

They come with instructions for a starter culture.(add to 3 tbsp malt extract)Very easy to follow.
At £3.50 incl del,I certainly was'nt disappointing.

Give it a go :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

Liquid Yeast requires more planning and preparation . . . but nothing touches them

 

[Screwy]

Big fan of liquid yeast and prefere white labs over wyeast. I start 1 vial and split into 6 so price does not come into it. Dont see the extra work as a problem to me its just a part of the brewing process and takes very little extra time. It is worth doing because I get a far better beer. No horror stories to tell either.

Like Dennis I split liquid yeast. Here is an article from AHB Forum from years ago, modified a bit for my process.

Liquid yeast can be pricey, however it is possible to culture the yeast and make at least ½ dozen starters to make it more cost effective.

You will need: -
2 – 3 liter bottle (Plastic coke or juice bottle will do) 17 – 25mm bored rubber bung Airlock
100g malt (any type)
6 Empty beer bottles small ones about 330ml

Method: -
1. Clean & sterilise equipment, bottles, bung, caps etc.
2. Dissolve malt in 1L of water and bring to the boil, turn down to simmer for 10 min. Cool to 20° - 25°C & add to the bottle.
3. Add liquid yeast & shake. Replace bung & airlock and leave for 24 to 48 hours till it is fermenting actively.
4. Gently shake bottle to mix sediment through the culture and bottle into beer bottles. Cap & refrigerate immediately.

You now have at least 6 starters, which will keep in the fridge for 6 to 12 months. Use the following method to re-activate the starters.

Using the Yeast Starters
Method: -
1. The day before you plan on making your brew, remove one of your yeast starters from the fridge and gentle shake to mix through the sediment.
2. Sterilise a 750 ml bottle, bung & airlock.
3. Add 100g of DME to 1L of water and boil as before. Cool to 20° - 25°C & add to the bottle.
4) Transfer the contents of your yeast starter to the bottle add bung and airlock and leave a day to start fermenting again.
5. When active you can now pitch the active starter or step it up again (make up 2L of starter wort as above) for a larger pitch.


This is one of many methods brewers here in Australia use, makes using liquid yeast much cheaper, and you get to proof your yeast before use. Splits can also be swapped among your brewer mates for different strains.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Bribie]

Good post, Screwy. I have used Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire and made lovely silky smooth Yorkshire Bitters, so branched out into Wyeast 1768 to do a Burton style ale. It took forever to kick off and the beer was so diacetyl affected that when I took a sample to the home brew club, a guy two tables away piped up "Who's opened their diacetyl brew " :lol: I think the problem was I tried to follow the same brewing schedule as with dried yeasts and have found that the liquids generally seem to take a lot longer. My Yorkies took over 3 weeks from pitching to bottling and on bottling still looked like pea soup, whereas a similar Nottingham brew would be done and dusted and nicely cleared out in two weeks, say at 20 degrees.

I now ignore the pack instructions and do up a good starter well in advance. Another pack (forget the exact strain) that I got arrived already puffed, I think the widget had become popped during transit somehow. It fermented ok.

However I recently did a Ruddles County style. My saved jar of trub from the 1768 failed to revive after two days in the starter bottle. I used US-05 and it produced a lovely ale.

So for me the jury is still out. I have a pack of Wyeast 1768 again (English Bitter) to give it another go but let it clean up any diacetyl this time. I'll be smacking it shortly, culture it and pitch it tomorrow night into my Camerons Strongarm style that's still in the cube from the other day.

Wishing me luck this time :drink:

 

[Screwy]

Good post, Screwy. I have used Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire and made lovely silky smooth Yorkshire Bitters, so branched out into Wyeast 1768 to do a Burton style ale. It took forever to kick off and the beer was so diacetyl affected that when I took a sample to the home brew club, a guy two tables away piped up "Who's opened their diacetyl brew " :lol: I think the problem was I tried to follow the same brewing schedule as with dried yeasts and have found that the liquids generally seem to take a lot longer. My Yorkies took over 3 weeks from pitching to bottling and on bottling still looked like pea soup, whereas a similar Nottingham brew would be done and dusted and nicely cleared out in two weeks, say at 20 degrees.

I now ignore the pack instructions and do up a good starter well in advance. Another pack (forget the exact strain) that I got arrived already puffed, I think the widget had become popped during transit somehow. It fermented ok.

However I recently did a Ruddles County style. My saved jar of trub from the 1768 failed to revive after two days in the starter bottle. I used US-05 and it produced a lovely ale.

So for me the jury is still out. I have a pack of Wyeast 1768 again (English Bitter) to give it another go but let it clean up any diacetyl this time. I'll be smacking it shortly, culture it and pitch it tomorrow night into my Camerons Strongarm style that's still in the cube from the other day.

Wishing me luck this time :drink:

Bribie, due to there being a high cell count for wild yeast and bacteria in dried yeast the pitchable amount in dried packs provides plenty of yeast cells, so you are pitching high in all but high gravity worts. With liquid yeast the health of the cells in the pack is important, you need a big pitch of healthy cells, so build up your yeast. Use a pitching rate calculator like mr malty.com to get an idea of what size starter you need.

Screwy