Amount of fermentables to add

[porter]

Hello everyone,
Having got my first basic kit (Coopers dark ale)on the way i can't wait to plan my next brew.I was thinking of doing a few more single can kits to gain a bit of confidence and then hopefully progress to a premium kit.
I was thinking of a Coopers stout next as it seems to get nothing but good reviews on here.
My question is regarding the amount of fermentables you can add.
In other words ,is there a limit?
For my first kit i opted for a kilo of brew enhancer (which i guess is 50/50 sugar and dme)and a few spoons of black treacle.Obviously there are a lot of things you could add,syrups,malt extacts,different sugars etc but is the general rule not to exceed the 1kg limit or is this just a starting point?
I would also presume alcoholic content would be affected and time to ferment extended if i were to use more fermentables?

 

[PaulCa]

The kit will tell you what ABV it will produce with and without the 1Kg of sugar. Usually 2.9% to 4.5-5%.

Adding more fermentables will increase ABV. Adding sugar will increase ABV without balancing it with an increase in body that malt will.

Once you get to beer over 7 or 8 percent, depending on that yeast, your yeast will struggle and you'll need to look at more specialist yeasts.

 

[porter]

Ah i see,so not much point in putting in extra sugar as i don't really want my beer/stout to exceed 5 or 5.5 % and any unused sugar would result in a brew too sweet,yes?If i do the dark ale kit again i may just make it short ,say 20-21lts.
I guess i was aiming at pimping the flavour by adding extra dme or fancy sugars such as muscavado etc.You mentioned different yeasts and i've seen a post on here where someone bins the kit yeast and uses something else.Does anyone else go to the trouble to use different yeast or find the stuff supplied good enough?

 

[PaulCa]

I use "Nottingham Ale Yeast" from Dan Star, but while I notice a little difference it's not a major one. I've definately had more stalls with the Coopers yeast, but it still works. If you wanted to go for high ABV you can get yeasts particularly for that, or go for wine yeast (not sure what that would do in a beer though).

To boost body without taking the ABV up you might want to look at specialty malts, a lot of them contain more non-fermentable sugars which means they add less ABV. Steeping crystal malt for example. Not sure what they would add to a stout though. Blonde/pale ales they add sweetness, body and an amber/red colour.

There are many other specialty malts and adjuncts which allow you to play with the flavour more than add ABV.

Remember you can balance sweetness with bitterness, ie... more unfermentable sugars but more hops gives a fuller "bigger" beer. Stouts are pretty "big" on their own though.

You can also add flavourings such as coffee, chocolate, raspberries etc.

 

[porter]

Thanks for the advice,much appreciated. :thumb:

 

[bigboots]

A word of caution re. the wine yeast........this will strip even more sugar/s from the wort.
A typical beer FG is 1010(ish)............a typical wine FG is 0.990.
This would give roughly 2.5% more ABV but the beer will be as dry as a ***'* ****! :nono:
:

 

[porter]

Thanks for that,i suppose a stronger brew is not always better.I will stick to the kit yeast for now it's just that i'd heard some types of yeast (for beer) will have an impact on the end taste.
Complex little bugger that yeast isn't it? :wha:

 

[LeithR]

@bigboots,
Not necessarily so. Wine yeasts go down to an SG of maybe .990 because there are no non-fermentable sugars in wine as a rule. Beer on the other hand contains non-fermentables, this contributes to the taste of the beer. Some yeasts are better than others at converting some of these non-fermentables into fermentable sugar which will increase the ABV. Temperature will also have an effect on them also, hence you read about people using brewing fridges to maintain a constant temperature. Wine yeasts would act in very much the same way as beer yeasts in beer with maybe a slight improvement in ABV.

If you look at Graham Wheelers book, there are a number of recipies which have small amounts of sugar added to increase the ABV without affecting too much the taste, this was common practice a few years ago in British breweries, not sure why but I think to save on the amount of malted grains used.