As might be clear from the header I'm an absolute novice at this lark. My fiance bought me a cider making kit and I've been trying to make a decent stab at making it. One particular issue is causing me concern. There is a seal-able plastic 5 gallon vessel for the fermentation process in the kit. There is also an airlock in the kit. However there is no hole in the vessel for the airlock to go through. The lid is either sealed and the airlock has no access or lid is left ajar for access and the air lock is pointless. I emailed the suppliers of the kit and they said "you don't need an airlock when making beer or cider. Just clip down the lid loosely so the co2 can escape". I have not seen this anywhere else and just wanted to check if I'm being taken for a ride? Any help much appreciated.
Airlock necessary for cider?
- Thread starter DryEye
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BigYin
Regular.
Welcome to the forum :drink:
I always use an airlock - it lets the CO2 produced by the fermentation escape without letting any airborn nasties get into the brew.
The lid ideally should have a hole with a rubber grommet fitted that allows the airlock to seal in nice and snugly.
Personally I'd winge at the supplier a bit more and insist on the proper lid being sent out - they're just fobbing you off to avoid the extra costs in my opinion :evil:
I always use an airlock - it lets the CO2 produced by the fermentation escape without letting any airborn nasties get into the brew.
The lid ideally should have a hole with a rubber grommet fitted that allows the airlock to seal in nice and snugly.
Personally I'd winge at the supplier a bit more and insist on the proper lid being sent out - they're just fobbing you off to avoid the extra costs in my opinion :evil:
You need the gas to be able to get out, and nothing to be able to get in. An airlock achieves this nicely. But a lid that doesn't totally seal or can be lifted occasionally without disturbing the brew too much is fine. Carbon dioxide is heavier than air and so forms a protective layer over the liquid. But it can only really protect against oxygen and minor airborne nasties - you want a lid to stop flies/cats/your phone etc falling in - and bacteria /could/ float down through the CO2 layer.
So a lock is best, a non-sealing lid next best, a normal lid workable. People have been making excellent ales and ciders in open fermenters for millennia.
So a lock is best, a non-sealing lid next best, a normal lid workable. People have been making excellent ales and ciders in open fermenters for millennia.
I'm in the same position, bought a kit from the range for £20, it came with a 5gal FV (bucket with clip on lid), stirrer, yeast, steriliser, siphon and thermometer strip. I bought separately - 2 bungs and airlocks, cider kit (same brand as from the range). The instructions say to leave the lid on, it'll stop any nasties getting in but will lift slightly if the pressure ever gets too high.
I kind of see how this would work, but as a total novice I'm not really sure.
Would I be better in future drilling a hole in the centre of my lid to fit bungs and airlock? What's a grommet needed for?
Many thanks,
Duncan
I kind of see how this would work, but as a total novice I'm not really sure.
Would I be better in future drilling a hole in the centre of my lid to fit bungs and airlock? What's a grommet needed for?
Many thanks,
Duncan
If you try to fit a lock straight to the lid you'll have to seal it with silicon or something. The grommet avoids that, and makes it removable for cleaning etc.
In a 5gallon bin you'd normally be working with enough headspace that it could just about take all the CO2 anyway even if it sealed perfectly. OK it'd be nicely pressurised, but...
You don't need a lock on a 5gallon bin. You don't really need one on a 1gallon bin. Even if the lid seals perfectly, just snapping it open a crack every couple of days will let the excess gas out, it'll have positive presure all the time stopping stuff getting in.
In a 5gallon bin you'd normally be working with enough headspace that it could just about take all the CO2 anyway even if it sealed perfectly. OK it'd be nicely pressurised, but...
You don't need a lock on a 5gallon bin. You don't really need one on a 1gallon bin. Even if the lid seals perfectly, just snapping it open a crack every couple of days will let the excess gas out, it'll have positive presure all the time stopping stuff getting in.
Hi,
It is totally up to you but you'll find as many people don't use an airlock as those that swear by them.
I've never used one for beer as I ferment in a fridge which offers some protection and I can't fit two FV in with airlocks.
I also don't think they are essential if you take care but it will depend on where you ferment etc.
If you do it, do it properly and fit a grommet.
It is totally up to you but you'll find as many people don't use an airlock as those that swear by them.
I've never used one for beer as I ferment in a fridge which offers some protection and I can't fit two FV in with airlocks.
I also don't think they are essential if you take care but it will depend on where you ferment etc.
If you do it, do it properly and fit a grommet.
Jeltz
Landlord.
A youngs fermentation bucket I picked up in freecycle doesn't have an airlock so decided to do beer in it without bothering, since the previous owner clearly didn't. The lid isn't air tight so while the lid bowed it didn't pop off. Once the fermentation finished it settled back down and although the beer is still maturing there is no sign of it having oxidised.
So I think the supplier is probably correct in that there is no actual need as the bucket isn't truly air tight.
So I think the supplier is probably correct in that there is no actual need as the bucket isn't truly air tight.
to air lock or not to air lock..... that is the question.
I have found that there are very few sealed fermenting buckets on the market All lids will leak Therefore the Co2 produced in beer and cider making ( being heavier than air will rise and form a layer over your brew. It will sit there and the air will be displaced out of the joint between the lid and the vesselwithout any problem, ( you might see the lid bulge up a little.) An air lock in beer/cider making is un-necessary, as theres usually a lot of fermenting brew in the vessel producing a lot of Co2. The lid as said performs the vital service of keeping air borne nasties and other objects from taking a dive into the brew.
I do not now use an air lock on my beers they are a bit of a nuisance and take up headspace if you trying to get the vessel in a fermenting cabinet.
Just clip the lid on all around the fermenting vessel, and then lift one edge free again, this will allow the great on rush of Co2 to escape during the initial and possibly violent primary fermentation. After this has died down a little the lid can be pushed firmly down and the vessel loosely sealed.
Now and again if you find it necessary you can lift an edge slightly for a few seconds.
The only other time I fully release the lid is when I am bottling otherwise the pressure difference does not allow the beer to exit the tap !
But if you want to use an air lock feel free. but use it with an appropriate sized hole a bored rubber bung or grommet or similar.
At the moment I am fermenting 19 galls of Ale in a vessel that has the lid tight down but has a 1 inch hole (approx) where it was original drilled for an air lock. A little plastic loose lid from a gallon water bottle sits over this hole and allows excess gas to escape ( it has been known to push this lid aside ) its replaced over the hole if this occurrs. ( Its quite a good method actually as it enables to to see into and onto the surface of the brew and watch the foam doing its stuff.
Co2 will protect your brew in most circumstances if its allowed to lie across the surface and not continually disturbed by vessel being moved shaken or disturbed.
I have found that there are very few sealed fermenting buckets on the market All lids will leak Therefore the Co2 produced in beer and cider making ( being heavier than air will rise and form a layer over your brew. It will sit there and the air will be displaced out of the joint between the lid and the vesselwithout any problem, ( you might see the lid bulge up a little.) An air lock in beer/cider making is un-necessary, as theres usually a lot of fermenting brew in the vessel producing a lot of Co2. The lid as said performs the vital service of keeping air borne nasties and other objects from taking a dive into the brew.
I do not now use an air lock on my beers they are a bit of a nuisance and take up headspace if you trying to get the vessel in a fermenting cabinet.
Just clip the lid on all around the fermenting vessel, and then lift one edge free again, this will allow the great on rush of Co2 to escape during the initial and possibly violent primary fermentation. After this has died down a little the lid can be pushed firmly down and the vessel loosely sealed.
Now and again if you find it necessary you can lift an edge slightly for a few seconds.
The only other time I fully release the lid is when I am bottling otherwise the pressure difference does not allow the beer to exit the tap !
But if you want to use an air lock feel free. but use it with an appropriate sized hole a bored rubber bung or grommet or similar.
At the moment I am fermenting 19 galls of Ale in a vessel that has the lid tight down but has a 1 inch hole (approx) where it was original drilled for an air lock. A little plastic loose lid from a gallon water bottle sits over this hole and allows excess gas to escape ( it has been known to push this lid aside ) its replaced over the hole if this occurrs. ( Its quite a good method actually as it enables to to see into and onto the surface of the brew and watch the foam doing its stuff.
Co2 will protect your brew in most circumstances if its allowed to lie across the surface and not continually disturbed by vessel being moved shaken or disturbed.
It's a PITA that many suppliers seem to send airlocks with a lidded bucket that has no airlock hole drilled! If you want to use the airlock then you can drill a hole that a grommet will fit into, otherwise it doesn't really matter. I have a 2g bucket that had no hole in the lid, so I stabbed a screwdriver into it to make a very rough hole - unfortunately a gromet will not fit in it now, and any airlock in it is useless as air gets out somewhere. I may do as piddledribble suggested and just place a bottle cap or something over the hole. Once I lost the lid of the FV and just put cling flm over the top, secured with elastic bands.
So your supplier was right, you don't really need one, however if the airlock was part of a kit they really should have sent you out a lid that could take an airlock! It's fun to watch the bubbles
So your supplier was right, you don't really need one, however if the airlock was part of a kit they really should have sent you out a lid that could take an airlock! It's fun to watch the bubbles
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