AG Belgian-American Pale Ale, please help

[beffrey]

This is a bit of a long one so please bear with me.

Recipe:

5kg lager malt
300g Crystal rye
300g Caragold
250g Torrified Wheat

for 23l of beer.

Hops - Chinook, Columubus, Sorachi Ace, Cascade (at varying intervals and amounts)

Yeast - Safbrew T-58 (one sachet - might seem stingy but I thought it would be fine, no starter)

SG - 1.060
FG - 1.018
ABV - 5.6%

This FG was after 6 days and my with my last experience T-58 took 2 weeks to ferment completely. T-58 gives a "high FG" anyhow.

So anyway, all seemed fine and it at this junction I started experimenting. Essentially I wanted to test the effect of ramping the beeer up with sugar additions.

So I:
1) Gently stirred the trup up.
2) Moved 2 of the 5 gallons to a new fermenter
3) Added 400g of table sugar to the new fermenter (about 18% of grain bill for this new batch, new est ABV 7.6%)
4) Then I decided to add a new yeast since I thought the T-58 would have run out of puff. I think I just added a 5g Youngs ale yeast sachet. Naff I know but I thought it could to the job. Granted, I should have made a starter for this second batch of yeast.

Anyway since then there has been no activity, I thought there would be new krausen? Temp is fine. I tried moderate aeration - which I know is fine in first 24 hours, is it fine still now given there is this secondary ferment still to occur?

It's now been over 30 hours since the sugar and yeast additions. Not really sure what to do now - just kind of waiting for mould to set in.

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[Mark1964]

Was the extra sugar dissolved in hot water or just added without diluting. It can take yeast a while to get going but you should have seen some signs by now. Can the yeast stand the extra alcohol level. Time will tell I think

 

[beffrey]

Yes I just chucked the sugar in there.

I did wonder about the yeast but we are still talking about ABVs of 7.5% max so I didn't think it would be a huge issue.

What shall I do if inactivity continues? Maybe it is fermenting inconspicuously???

 

[pittsy]

i would use the rest of that packet of yeast , it has been said in a wyeast seminar that all brews with an og of over 1040 should have a yeast starter made regardless of yeast strain not doing so could result in a few things such as not enough yeast to complete the job but most likely and more importantly is because there may be to low a yeast cell count ,the yeast then have a harder time and can produce off flavours from this , from now on i shall only be brewing with starters (remember to give the starter around 3 days before pitching it if using 1) :

 

[beffrey]

So after 40 hours the new yeast started working! FG is now 1.014.

However, for the batch where sugar hasn't been added FG still stands at 1.018, when it should be able to get down to 1.011 if the sugar batch can reach 1.014.

Thus, I need to go and buy another T-58 to bring this FG down. (I can then use the remainder to bottle a Duvel clone I've been lagering).

Yeast :evil:

 

[beffrey]

Thanks for the comments btw guys.

One more quizzy:

I hear you want Duvel to come down to a FG of around 1.006. How does this work when the Belgian Safbrew yeasts both provide a "high" FG - is my only option to move to liquid yeast to clone such a beer? It just seems odd when I consider that most Belgian beers are dry and must be on the lower FG side in general?

 

[pittsy]

most Belgian beers with have a high original gravity which means you end up with a high final gravity i would expect to finish anywhere from 1018 to 1012

 

[beffrey]

pittsy, I see what you're saying i.e. attenuation needs to be awesome to get down to the FG gravity figure I am talking about, but I still find it hard to believe that Duval uses a yeast like T-58 or S-33.

Next time I try I may use a champagne yeast in secondary, which is what Randy Mosher suggests. Sounds like a great experiment to try.

Anyway, I saw green particles on top of the batch w/out sugar and wasn't sure whether it was mould or ground hops that had escaped the muslin bag I was using to dry hop. Secondly, I wanted to use the left over yeast from the batch w/ sugar to bring down the FG of the batch without sugar. Thus, after only 12 days I have bottled the 7.5% sugar batch, and racked the batch without sugar on top of that yeast.

Seems to have all worked out fine but what a mess.

 

[beffrey]

Oh no batch without sugar is now turning green again - must be mould. :cry:

 

[shearclass]

It just seems odd when I consider that most Belgian beers are dry and must be on the lower FG side in general?

Almost all the Belgian beers I have drank have been quite sweet, almost too sweet for my liking. Maybe the FG you are trying to achieve is incorrect?

 

[beffrey]

So the batch without sugar added I bottled quickly and dry hopped with cascade int he bottle to try and stave off mould. Actually don't think much of that one. Plenty of sediment makes pouring the beer cleanly quite a chore. 175g hops per 40 pints is complete hop overload which is a shame as I actually thought the malt bill would have been quite interesting. Alcohol taste too prominent. Lastly I don't think the belgian yeast really compliments the american hops at all well.

The batch where I added 18% sugar to the fermenter to boost ABV to 8% is an altogether different proposition. Really caramely with rich fruitcake flavour and aroma slightly reminiscent of Fuller's 1845. Dangerously drinkable without no indication by taste that the brew is so strong. Very very pleased.

So in conclusion, a very worthwhile experiment and can certainly take forward what I've learned here in brewing future Belgians.