AG#8 Lager thingy

[Nicks90]

As per my other thread, fancied having a go at a lager thingy. But as I don't really drink much of it and I don't have the right proper ingredients - then this is a lager THINGY

3kg Irish malt
100gm caramalt

18l mash at 65c for an hour followed by a 4l sparge and a good bag squeeze
Leaving 20l wort for a 60 minute boil

Hops
30gm saaz at 60min
50gm saaz at 0 min
20gm saaz left for a dry hop

Yeast is mangrove jack's M84 bohemian lager yeast
16l in to my barrel and it's sat in the cellar waiting to drop to 11c before pitching the yeast.

It can stay tucked up in there for 3 weeks to brew out, the plan is to then bring it up to room temp and dry hop for a week and give it a d-rest . Bottle it and carb up again at room temp and it can then go back in the cellar to condition at 10c till it's clear.
I know it's not traditional or proper, not following the exact lager-ish process or even using the right grain... But it's what I have to hand and using the natural chill I have available.

Don't know the og yet as it's still a bit warm.

 

[foxbat]

Nothing wrong with that plan at all. It should make a tasty lager with a malty backbone to offset all that lovely Saaz.

 

[An Ankoù]

"Don't know the og yet as it's still a bit warm."
Sounds as if you've already done it. I might have put the bulk of the saaz in the full boil for a bit more bitterness and left less for later additions, but it sounds good to me. I love MJ M84, it's a great yeast.

 

[HoppyTommy]

Just nervously waiting for my lager to start fermenting that I brewed on Wednesday. I read that the safale 34 / 70 yeast is a slow starter. Read about liquid yeasts and starters and decided against these options......may be regretting that now.....

 

[An Ankoù]

Fingers crossed. There's no guarantee that liquid yeasts would be any better, Did you rehydrate the 34/70 or just pitch it in there?

 

[Nicks90]

Now tying myself up in knots over rehydrating my yeast.
Do I hydrate at 10c or 30c?
Do I then chuck it in or slowly cool it in the fridge to match the wort temp?
Should I just sprinkle it on dry like it says on the packet?
Does it really matter?

 

[uDicko]

Now tying myself up in knots over rehydrating my yeast.
Do I hydrate at 10c or 30c?
Do I then chuck it in or slowly cool it in the fridge to match the wort temp?
Should I just sprinkle it on dry like it says on the packet?
Does it really matter?

Your last two points

- Chuck it in
- No

 

[An Ankoù]

With the greatest respect to uDicko, rehydrate it.
Chris White of Whitelabs (with Zainasheff) p. 146 points out that the only good reason to sprinkle yeast directly on the wort is if you doubt your sanitation. Sprinking will kill about half the cells, while if you rehydrate properly you can save up to 100% of the cells, meaning less lag time and a better fermentation (and with a lager yeast, you'll only need one sachet instead of two).
John Palmer p 117 says the same. He recommends rehydrating at 25-30C for ale yeast and 21-25C for lager yeast. You boil the water, let it cool to target temperature in a sterilised jar and pour the powdered least on top. Cover with Aluminium foil. Let it float for 15 minutes than stir or shake it into the liquid and leave to rest for another 15 minutes then pitch. Don't try to rehydrate with cold water. (White recommends rehydrating at 41C, but I find that scary and as I had read Palmer before reading White, I stick with what works for me).
Since I started rehydrating, I found that all the claimed benefits have been realised. I have inoculated a lager wort with a fresh batch of rehydrated Saflager, seen visible colonisation in 3 hours and the surface covered in 5.
(I forgot to mention Meg. What a great drummer).

 

[Nicks90]

Just checked how my wort was cooling and it's still at 22c.
Obviously wasn't very cold outside in the shed!

So took the opportunity to take a reading 1.052
It's now in the cold cellar to finish getting to target temp and then I'll follow your advice ankou and do a 20c starter.


(And yes I am up and about at 7am Saturday morning)

 

[uDicko]

With the greatest respect to uDicko, rehydrate it.
Chris White of Whitelabs (with Zainasheff) p. 146 points out that the only good reason to sprinkle yeast directly on the wort is if you doubt your sanitation. Sprinking will kill about half the cells, while if you rehydrate properly you can save up to 100% of the cells, meaning less lag time and a better fermentation (and with a lager yeast, you'll only need one sachet instead of two).
John Palmer p 117 says the same. He recommends rehydrating at 25-30C for ale yeast and 21-25C for lager yeast. You boil the water, let it cool to target temperature in a sterilised jar and pour the powdered least on top. Cover with Aluminium foil. Let it float for 15 minutes than stir or shake it into the liquid and leave to rest for another 15 minutes then pitch. Don't try to rehydrate with cold water. (White recommends rehydrating at 41C, but I find that scary and as I had read Palmer before reading White, I stick with what works for me).
Since I started rehydrating, I found that all the claimed benefits have been realised. I have inoculated a lager wort with a fresh batch of rehydrated Saflager, seen visible colonisation in 3 hours and the surface covered in 5.
(I forgot to mention Meg. What a great drummer).

Lots of Reference points there to prove me wrong!

I was operating on the basis that I've never had issues sprinkling dryed yeast on the top and had heard (clearly incorrect) that rehydration or making a starter with dried yeast was not a good idea.

Excuse my poor advice (although never had issues)

 

[An Ankoù]

Lots of Reference points there to prove me wrong!

I was operating on the basis that I've never had issues sprinkling dryed yeast on the top and had heard (clearly incorrect) that rehydration or making a starter with dried yeast was not a good idea.

Excuse my poor advice (although never had issues)

In truth, neither did I when I used to pitch direct except that the lag time was much longer. Sometimes, not often, but sometimes, I had to pitch a second sachet after 36-48 hours.

 

[HoppyTommy]

Fingers crossed. There's no guarantee that liquid yeasts would be any better, Did you rehydrate the 34/70 or just pitch it in there?

Sorry just seen query. Just chucked it in. However, I'm glad to report 4 days later it's just started to ferment.

 

[The Baron]

Sorry to throw a debate bomb in here but the question of rehydrating as arisen again. As with all info in the community there are also many other experts who say it is not necessary to rehydrate most yeasts. In my opinion I have nearly always just thrown in dry yeast but try to make sure the yeast is at room temp as near as the wort too to avoid stress and nearly always get a fast strike of anything from 3 hours to 12. I do think it is more essential to consider rehydration for higher ABV beers but for the most of my beers which are sessionable and under 5% it is not needed. My opinion only

 

[Nicks90]

Well I did a 700ml starter at 20c and put it in the cellar with my wort. Gave it 30 minutes and poured it in.
Temp has now dropped to 12c and it will just have to do it's thing when it wants to do it.
I'm sure it will be fine.

 

[BeerCat]

MJ84 is a slow starter. If I pitch enough slurry I have active fermentation within 12 hours at 9c. To duplicate that with dried yeast I used 35g for 30l of 1045 wort. When I tried with 2 packs it took a good 48hours to do anything but the beer was still clean.

 

[HoppyTommy]

I showed my dad my lager fermenting last night and accused him of farting in my garage.

Then I realised it was the smell from the fermentation fridge. Is a sulfurous guff normal from a lager yeast?

PS a sulfurous guff is normal for my dad.

 

[An Ankoù]

Many lager yeasts produce loads of nasty sulphury smells; Fermentis W-34/70 is one of my favourite yeasts and it absolutely stinks. i also use MJ M84, but I haven't noticed much of a pong from that.

 

[Nicks90]

mine isnt pongy at all so far

 

[foxbat]

I showed my dad my lager fermenting last night and accused him of farting in my garage.

Then I realised it was the smell from the fermentation fridge. Is a sulfurous guff normal from a lager yeast?

PS a sulfurous guff is normal for my dad.

Sulphur smells are entirely within character for lager yeasts though they don't all do it. It fades away when fermentation is complete.

 

[Nicks90]

Checked in on the brew today and activity seems to have stopped after 10 days.
Almost no bubbles in the surface, so I am thinking is it ready to bring up to room temp and dry hop / d-rest?
Or should I hold firm and leave it longer? Not sure if it makes much difference tbh