advice please for a new guy

[Tim_Crowhurst]

Did a gallon of elderberry last year which i hope turns out ok upon consumption this year.

It probably won't, and that's nothing to do with your wine-making because even the best-made elderberry wine will taste rough after only nine months as it takes a long time to mature. Some say leave it three years, some say leave it for seven. Either way, your patience will be rewarded!

1. The dandelion has slowed down its ferment (2 and a bit weeks in) and i'm wondering if it's time to rack it off the lees into another demijohn? Haven't taken a reading yet.

If it's still in the primary fermenter (usually a bucket with a lid) then it's usually a good idea to get it into a DJ with a bubble lock within five to ten days. If it's in a DJ already then it's not as critical. In fact I generally avoid racking unless absolutely necessary. See my reply to the campden Q below for why.

2. Been at a constant temperature, if time to rack, is now the time to keep it cooler and would the garage be unsuitable because of the fluctuating temperature between day and night?

You're now going into the secondary fermentation phase, which is where all the interesting flavours are created. Temperature is pretty important at this point, and for most yeasts the ideal range at this point is about 17-22C. Much higher and you'll get a higher production of fusel oils (which cause hangovers). Much lower and you risk a stuck ferment (although some yeasts will ferment as low as 8C).

3. Is it necessary to introduce a campden on each racking?

Campden tablets reduce the availability of oxygen during racking, which prevents/limits oxidation. During primary fermentation you need as much oxygen as possible in the must, but during secondary fermentation the reverse is true as oxidation will destroy the wine's flavour. Excess oxygen can also promote the growth of acetobacter bacteria, which turn the alcohol into vinegar.

4. Finally, for flower wines in general, i've been told if it's just a gallon that's being made, sugar needs to be no more than 1kg as it will be too sweet. Many recipies i've seen for hawthorn, elderflower and so on though seem to be much higher...

Pete

The amount of sugar used is the most important thing in determining the amount of alcohol in the finished wine. Approximately half the sugar is turned into alcohol, the rest becoming water, carbon dioxide and a number of other chemicals like glycerine, fusel oils, esters, etc. So 1kg/gallon works out at 11-12% ABV, typical for a table wine.

Different yeast strains have different tolerances for alcohol. Some will give up at 12%, others at 18%. So if you use a strain that has a low tolerance for alcohol, once the wine reaches that limit the yeast will die and any sugar left will remain unfermented. This is how fortified wines are made: fermentation is stopped by adding a spirit (usually brandy) to raise the ABV to a level too high for the yeast to survive.

A strain of yeast with a high tolerance for alcohol (e.g. Champagne, Sauternes) will behave in exactly the same way, but will use up more sugar and produce more alcohol. If it runs out of sugar before it reaches its limit, you'll end up with a dry wine.

If you want to halt fermentation before the yeast has both fermented to dryness and reached its limit for alcohol, there are three main ways I know of: by adding brandy to make a fortified wine; by adding potassium sorbate and a campden tablet (which will generally kill off any yeast when used together); and by refrigerating the wine for a couple of months (which will also kill off the yeast).

 

[peteplus1]

cheers for the reply Tim.

Yeah, the elderberry i was just planning on a taste this autumn, 12 months on. I've read it takes a long while and gets better and better (hopefully). Didn't know it was ok to leave for so long though.

Just to clarify (a-hem!) re the dandelion... i should have said that it was 2 and a bit weeks in, in a dj. Again, just conflicting reports about racking. Some saying rack up to 3 times, good to take it off the lees etc. Others that racking might not be even necessary, like yourself. It has cleared a hell of a lot already but long way to go obviously.

so (to point 2. again) Now you know i mean the ferment has slowed considerably in the dj, if i did rack it into another should i keep it at the temperature in case of further fermentation? Or is it time to leave it a bit cooler?

3. seems some people use a campden upon racking and others not :hmm:

4. trial and error with the sweetness i guess. Maybe doing at least 2 dj's worth of the same wine with slightly different measurements is the best way for experimentation...

Really appreciate this feedback for a novice like myself. I have enthusiasm and patience in bucket loads so happy to have started this on going hobby. Here's hoping for some good reults :

 

[Tim_Crowhurst]

cheers for the reply Tim.

Yeah, the elderberry i was just planning on a taste this autumn, 12 months on. I've read it takes a long while and gets better and better (hopefully). Didn't know it was ok to leave for so long though.

Just to clarify (a-hem!) re the dandelion... i should have said that it was 2 and a bit weeks in, in a dj. Again, just conflicting reports about racking. Some saying rack up to 3 times, good to take it off the lees etc. Others that racking might not be even necessary, like yourself. It has cleared a hell of a lot already but long way to go obviously.

so (to point 2. again) Now you know i mean the ferment has slowed considerably in the dj, if i did rack it into another should i keep it at the temperature in case of further fermentation? Or is it time to leave it a bit cooler?

I'd say yes, and that the garage probably isn't a good place because of the fluctuating temps. Wines are traditionally kept in cellars because the low temperatures are good for flavour development.

3. seems some people use a campden upon racking and others not :hmm:

Some people like the reassurance of using a campden, others prefer to avoid using them unless absolutely necessary. It's all personal taste.

if you're making a sherry or madeira style wine there's no point using campdens as they're meant to be heavily oxidised.

4. trial and error with the sweetness i guess. Maybe doing at least 2 dj's worth of the same wine with slightly different measurements is the best way for experimentation...

That will work. You can then blend the two if one is too sweet and the other too dry.

Alternatively you can backsweeten. You can either use a non-fermentable sweetener, or you can ferment to dryness, stabilise with potassium sorbate and campden, leave to mature for a while (so all the yeasties are dead) then back-sweeten with sugar. Be sparing with how much sugar you use though.